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Old 01-13-2015, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 7,283,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
Too bad they had to resort to a loophole to win the game isn't it? If they hadn't gotten that one TD in that series, they would have lost to a better team. One that does not spend all their time looking for loopholes in the rules.

Maybe they can use some of Brady's unused salary to actually hire a lawyer fulltime to discover more loopholes in the rules.
'loophole'...

The term implies a situation in which something can be done despite rules that were intended, but failed through imprecise wording, to prohibit it. That is not the case here. The formation in question is routinely used in punt formations - from which teams occasionally do not punt but instead run or pass the ball. The formation has been used in college football in the same way that Belichick used it on Sunday. It's a known, if very rare, formation.

It's no more of a loophole than an onside kick, or spiking the ball to stop the clock, or taking an intentional safety late in the game while nursing a six-point lead in order to kick from the 20 rather than the 1.

Disliking a team or a player/coach is one thing - petulant whining is another.

 
Old 01-13-2015, 08:49 PM
 
9,618 posts, read 4,610,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
'loophole'...

The term implies a situation in which something can be done despite rules that were intended, but failed through imprecise wording, to prohibit it. That is not the case here. The formation in question is routinely used in punt formations - from which teams occasionally do not punt but instead run or pass the ball. The formation has been used in college football in the same way that Belichick used it on Sunday. It's a known, if very rare, formation.

It's no more of a loophole than an onside kick, or spiking the ball to stop the clock, or taking an intentional safety late in the game while nursing a six-point lead in order to kick from the 20 rather than the 1.

Disliking a team or a player/coach is one thing - petulant whining is another.
Always wondered why "spiking the ball" isn't intentional grounding.
 
Old 01-13-2015, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
6,547 posts, read 4,497,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
The Pats should be complaining about the third an 8, where Gronk was mugged and no call.
of course since Owen Daniels got ridden like a horse on an earlier 3rd down play, that was the correct call there. Call both, or call neither. Can't call one but then call the other.
 
Old 01-13-2015, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
6,547 posts, read 4,497,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
Well, if the Ravens resorted to using loopholes in their two previous wins, I guess you'd have a good case. The Pats in fact did resort to trickery, whether legal or not by using a loophole in the rules. Just remember, what goes around comes around. I am certain before Bellicheat's run as coach is over, he will be on the receiving end of similar loopholes.
We scored TDs on our first 2 drives of the game. Had a chance to completely blow them out!

We than scored right before halftime and just right after halftime to go up 14 again. The final 25 minutes or so we mustered 3 points & 2 interceptions. After the Revis hold on the fumble, which would have negated a Pats first down inside the 5 yard line, the Pats defense beared down and held them to a Tucker field goal when we got in the redzone. I'm not mad that we lost on a trick play or a loophole or whatever I'm more pissed that we blew 14 point leads......................TWICE and completely imploded after the Edelmen to Amandola trick play pass.
 
Old 01-14-2015, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
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What will probably happen is, more teams will do the same thing. Declare a player ineligible, while approaching the line of scrimmage, so they can put an uncovered receiver in the tackle spot on the other side of the center. Then do a quick snap before the defense has a chance to make adjustments.

Then the team on defense will run out of time outs(the ultimate goal IMHO). When more and more teams start pleading for more timeouts in the game, the NFL will either have to modify the rules to give the defense more time or give everyone more timeouts.

Which do you think will happen?
 
Old 01-14-2015, 01:50 PM
 
9,618 posts, read 4,610,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7express View Post
of course since Owen Daniels got ridden like a horse on an earlier 3rd down play, that was the correct call there. Call both, or call neither. Can't call one but then call the other.
They should have called both.
 
Old 01-14-2015, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
3,769 posts, read 6,766,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7express View Post
We scored TDs on our first 2 drives of the game. Had a chance to completely blow them out!

We than scored right before halftime and just right after halftime to go up 14 again. The final 25 minutes or so we mustered 3 points & 2 interceptions. After the Revis hold on the fumble, which would have negated a Pats first down inside the 5 yard line, the Pats defense beared down and held them to a Tucker field goal when we got in the redzone. I'm not mad that we lost on a trick play or a loophole or whatever I'm more pissed that we blew 14 point leads......................TWICE and completely imploded after the Edelmen to Amandola trick play pass.


I've heard a few people say the Pats/Ravens playoff game *was* the Superbowl (much like last years Seahawks/49ers game was intense). Pats and Ravens were fairly evenly matched. Revius was pushed to the limit by Smith (who beat him a lot). It came down to the team who'd make the fewer mental mistakes. The Pats did that + the two trick plays gave them the edge.
 
Old 01-14-2015, 08:10 PM
 
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I agree Miker. The two trick plays were the difference in the game. Flacco threw 2 picks and Brady one bad pick. The last pick by Flacco probably could have been avoided if Torrey Smith made a play on the ball. He just stopped and didn't fight all the way for the ball.

I don't think anything was illegal about the trick play. Belicheck copied the play from his friend Nick Saban. But I do think the spirit of the law was broken. There is a reason certain players have to wear certain numbers and let the refs know if they are eligible or ineligible. To walk up to the line and hike the ball quickly after a receiver declares himself ineligible, does create a clear advantage to the offense. But there is nothing illegal about according to the letter of the law. Belicheck didn't invent the play, Saban ran it earlier this year.

But for all of the Patriots fans talking about how great Brady played and how the Patriots are better than the Ravens, it took trick plays to beat them. Those trick plays had nothing to do with Brady. He played good but he is lucky those plays worked. Belicheck had to be scared to death of losing and saw how the great Patriots defense was getting beat up, so he had to pull out everything he had to try and score. That is to his credit. But he knew, physically speaking, who was the better team on the field. He had to try something. The two trick plays made the difference. Ravens still had a chance to win it with Brady on the sideline. They were marching the ball down the field until Flacco tried to score instead of continuing to march down the field. Again, I credit the Patriots, they won. But don't sit there with a straight face after the fact and pretend like the Patriots were the much better team. All of you guys really thought you were going to lose. Even when Flacco was marching them down the field at the end. A close game that could have gone either way.
 
Old 01-14-2015, 08:22 PM
 
32,479 posts, read 26,364,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
I don't think anything was illegal about the trick play. Belicheck copied the play from his friend Nick Saban. But I do think the spirit of the law was broken. There is a reason certain players have to wear certain numbers and let the refs know if they are eligible or ineligible. To walk up to the line and hike the ball quickly after a receiver declares himself ineligible, does create a clear advantage to the offense. But there is nothing illegal about according to the letter of the law. Belicheck didn't invent the play, Saban ran it earlier this year.
there was plenty of time for the ref to announce that a certain player was ineligible for the play, so how was the spirit of the rule broken?
 
Old 01-14-2015, 08:32 PM
 
6,459 posts, read 3,462,944 times
Reputation: 10258
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
But for all of the Patriots fans talking about how great Brady played and how the Patriots are better than the Ravens, it took trick plays to beat them. Those trick plays had nothing to do with Brady. He played good but he is lucky those plays worked. Belicheck had to be scared to death of losing and saw how the great Patriots defense was getting beat up, so he had to pull out everything he had to try and score. That is to his credit. But he knew, physically speaking, who was the better team on the field. He had to try something. The two trick plays made the difference. Ravens still had a chance to win it with Brady on the sideline. They were marching the ball down the field until Flacco tried to score instead of continuing to march down the field. Again, I credit the Patriots, they won. But don't sit there with a straight face after the fact and pretend like the Patriots were the much better team. All of you guys really thought you were going to lose. Even when Flacco was marching them down the field at the end. A close game that could have gone either way.
I'll chime in on this as a Patriots fan.

Forget stats for a moment - I personally hate them anyways because there is so much more to judging a player. Two trick plays as you call them were huge, both executed to perfection.

Vereen properly reported himself ineligible. Four players with the proper #'s were on the interior line which was legal. Vereen was properly announced. Brady's perfect timing to hit the line and call for the ball was the end of the execution, the final thing that needed to happen for it all to work.

Edelman would never have made that perfect throw if Brady hadn't first perfectly delievered the ball to him, which he did.

Brady won that game. The Patriots did not call a running play after the early part of the 2nd quarter, so the rest of the game rode on Brady's arm. He engineered not one, but two 14-point deficit comebacks. He was the quarterback, and he marched them into the end zone five times in the game.

The trick plays were only two plays in a 60-minute game that the Patriots and Brady and Belichick planned for and executed. They won on the big stage. So I absolutely will sit here with a straight face and say the Patriots were the better team. The Ravens were tough and gritty and played well, but they didn't execute enough plays to win, so in essence the Patriots were the better team.

It was a close game that could of gone either way. Belichick, Brady & Company were the better team that day on the field and on the scoreboard, period.

Last edited by metalmancpa; 01-14-2015 at 08:53 PM..
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