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Old 01-12-2015, 10:15 AM
 
6,515 posts, read 3,497,122 times
Reputation: 10336

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Brady is, well, Brady. Is and will always be in the argument of best ever, and has already earned that right.

Rodgers needs a few more years under his belt, but if he keeps playing as he does, he to will be in the best ever argument.

Luck is coming into his own. He's still a bit sloppy and a risk taker, but as he hones his skills, he certainly looks to be in the argument soon.

Wilson hasn't proven to me yet he is or will be elite. At this time I see him as a 2nd tier QB with the likes of Big Ben, Romo, etc. I think Wilson may turn out to be the best mobile QB if he keeps up what I see, being so smooth at what he does.

It was sad to see Manning yesterday.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:16 AM
 
35,324 posts, read 25,357,432 times
Reputation: 32423
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
It was sad to see Manning yesterday.

It was lovely!
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
1,423 posts, read 1,287,347 times
Reputation: 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
Not to the degree that Wilson is though. Wilson ran for over 800 yards this year while still being a perfectly capable and efficient passer.
Rushing yards alone don't mean much... Just ask Colin Kaepernick.

Besides, Wilson's offensive production is nowhere near that of Rodgers and Luck. Not even close.

Wilson:
3,475 pass yards
849 rush yards
4,324 total yards
20 pass td
7 int
6 rush td
95.0 QB rating

Rodgers:
4,381 pass yards
269 rush yards
4,650 total yards
38 pass td
5 int
2 rush td
112.2 QB rating

Luck:
4,761 pass yards
273 rush yards
5,034 total yards
40 pass td
16 int
3 rush td
96.5 QB rating

Yeah, sorry dude... Wilson isn't in the same time category as Rodgers and Luck. Not even close.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:19 AM
 
6,515 posts, read 3,497,122 times
Reputation: 10336
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
It was lovely!
I'm a Pats and Brady fan, and yes I do love seeing Manning get beat in the playoffs and keep up his miserable post season record. It was just the way it looked yesterday, like an old man. Even with last years SB blow out, he didn't look like he did yesterday. He is one of the greats, and that's not how any fan wants to see a great exit.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:22 AM
 
35,324 posts, read 25,357,432 times
Reputation: 32423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas_Cabbie View Post
Rushing yards alone don't mean much... Just ask Colin Kaepernick.

Besides, Wilson's offensive production is nowhere near that of Rodgers and Luck. Not even close.

Wilson:
3,475 pass yards
849 rush yards
4,324 total yards
20 pass td
7 int
6 rush td
95.0 QB rating

Rodgers:
4,381 pass yards
269 rush yards
4,650 total yards
38 pass td
5 int
2 rush td
112.2 QB rating

Luck:
4,761 pass yards
273 rush yards
5,034 total yards
40 pass td
16 int
3 rush td
96.5 QB rating

Yeah, sorry dude... Wilson isn't in the same time category as Rodgers and Luck. Not even close.

It's not about numbers. That is what people don't get. It is about having "it" and winning.

Luck and Rodgers are great, and yeah, better than Wilson as QBs I would say, no denying that, but Wilson will have worse numbers than lots of QBs than he is better than.

Brady has worse numbers most of the time during his career than Manning. Was he a lesser QB? Of course not.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:27 AM
 
4,313 posts, read 1,876,500 times
Reputation: 2393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas_Cabbie View Post
Rushing yards alone don't mean much... Just ask Colin Kaepernick.

Besides, Wilson's offensive production is nowhere near that of Rodgers and Luck. Not even close.
1. Kaeprnick is not anywhere near the passer that Wilson is so why bring him up?

2. You under estimate the crushing blow a big run whether it is for 40 yards or for 3 yards and a first down or 7 yards to set up 3rd and 3, has on a defense. Basically double the rushing yards to get the equivalent importance in passing yards. So Wilson's 800 yards rushing if looked at as passing yards, feels like an extra 1600 yards passing. That is how I see it anyways. Obviously it is hard to put an exact number on it. But I have no doubt that they should be considered and people under estimate them greatly.

You can't just call the 800 yards meaningless and not factor them in at all.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
1,423 posts, read 1,287,347 times
Reputation: 1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
It's not about numbers. That is what people don't get. It is about having "it" and winning.

Luck and Rodgers are great, and yeah, better than Wilson as QBs I would say, no denying that, but Wilson will have worse numbers than lots of QBs than he is better than.

Brady has worse numbers most of the time during his career than Manning. Was he a lesser QB? Of course not.
By "it", I assume you mean the league's best defense back to back years...
I would certainly hope that Wilson is successful when his defense is CONSTANTLY generating 3 and outs and getting the offense the ball back.

Can't see how this is difficult to understand.

Rodgers and Luck are far more impressive because they PICK UP their defenses...

Wilson gets the ball back and keeps the ball on the ground to keep the clock moving.

And... There's a reason there's a 17 point gap in QB rating between Wilson and Rodgers.

Pleaze...
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:35 AM
 
6,515 posts, read 3,497,122 times
Reputation: 10336
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
It's not about numbers. That is what people don't get. It is about having "it" and winning.

Luck and Rodgers are great, and yeah, better than Wilson as QBs I would say, no denying that, but Wilson will have worse numbers than lots of QBs than he is better than.

Brady has worse numbers most of the time during his career than Manning. Was he a lesser QB? Of course not.
It's about a combination of numbers and success.

What makes Brady a better QB than Manning hands down IMHO is that his numbers are pretty good on their own, but his winning percentage is ridiculous. Plus his post season record speaks for itself. Just the fact he's going to his 9th AFC Championship speaks volumes. Yes it's a team sport, so rating a QB has a lot to do with the team around him.

Wilson has won with lesser stats because their defense is one of the best, maybe ever (at least the past few years). Brady has, by the numbers, had much less to work with over the years. He's had players come in who were considered average and made them super stars (Welker). Moss had his best year ever with Brady. And the Pats really haven't had a running game to force good play action like Manning had with James.

To rate any position, you need to look at all of the variables. Why isn't Terry Bradshaw considered one of the best ever - Steel Curtain.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:41 AM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,623,184 times
Reputation: 3225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth View Post
Bill, I agree that who is the best, can be a subjective debate. But statistically, Wilson is not in the top 10 by most quantitative stats. He's not in the top 10 of total passing yards per game, total pass TDs, or completion percentage. Wilson averaged 217 yards a game (regular season), which puts him in 23rd place. Brees averaged almost 100 yards more per game, and P. Manning had almost twice Wilson's regular season passing TD total of 20.

Understood, Wilson is great on the move, a much better runner than Manning or Brees.. but all things considered.. I think both Brees, P. Manning are better QBs than Wilson (and this season, so were Romo and Roethlisberger). Wilson is a fortunate benefactor of an all around great Seattle team right now. I would concur we got 2 of the best (in Brady & Rodgers) tho'.. And Luck as the best young QB in the game. (peace)
I'm certainly not going to knock Manning or Brees, but I don't think those statistics alone really measure a quarterback's effectiveness. It's about leadership, running the offense, and making plays. But more than that, it's also about the kinds of things that a quarterback can do to a defense. Trust me, in the days of the week leading up to the game, a defense will be more comfortable with 65% pass completion from a pocket passer if they believe they can close the pocket and cover receivers better than 15 or 16 of the 17 teams he's already played.

What will keep a defensive coordinator in the film room until 3 a.m. is the kind of stuff that Russell Wilson can do, which is running right up to the line of scrimmage as though he's about to take off for 15 yards before finding Baldwin or Kearse 40 yards down the field for a quick six. Russell Wilson scares defensive coordinators more than just about any QB in the league right now. It won't show up in the stats sheet, and he won't be your fantasy football leader, but he wins games. He's not just mobile, he makes good decisions on the fly and makes defenses pay for guessing wrong.

I'll concede that Marshawn Lynch and others make Russell Wilson look good, but I don't know of too many quarterbacks that don't need good players around them. Can Wilson take a very average team and make them 9-7 or 10-6? That remains to be seen, I guess, but Wilson's playing as well as anyone would with the tools he has, and arguably better in some respects.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:43 AM
 
35,324 posts, read 25,357,432 times
Reputation: 32423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas_Cabbie View Post
By "it", I assume you mean the league's best defense back to back years...
I would certainly hope that Wilson is successful when his defense is CONSTANTLY generating 3 and outs and getting the offense the ball back.

Can't see how this is difficult to understand.

Rodgers and Luck are far more impressive because they PICK UP their defenses...

Wilson gets the ball back and keeps the ball on the ground to keep the clock moving.

And... There's a reason there's a 17 point gap in QB rating between Wilson and Rodgers.

Pleaze...

No, that is not what I meant by "it".

I never said Wilson is better than Rodgers or Luck, BTW. I would absolutely take him (now in what, his third year) over Brees, Flacco, Manning, Cam Newton, etc. Heck, even Brady.

Luck and Rodgers might be the only two I wouldn't take Wilson over if starting a team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
It won't show up in the stats sheet, and he won't be your fantasy football leader, but he wins games.
This is "it". I saw it when I saw him at UW for that year, he, even when the rest of his offense isn't doing much, and the D is shakey, he finds a way to win or at least put the team in a position to win. Even when not having great stats.
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