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Old 01-17-2015, 02:20 PM
 
16,549 posts, read 21,051,115 times
Reputation: 48018

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
If you are going to compare Bellicheck, why didn't you bring up the fact that he coached in Cleveland his first go around? How did that stint go? Not as good as when he came over to the Patriots.
When he took over the Cleveland program in 1991, without a doubt he had a lot of work to do, even though it was only 2 years removed from an '89 club that went to the AFC Championship game against Denver. Free agency, retirements, and trades started picking at the organization. And there was the Bernie Kosar situation in 1992. But after a couple of 7-9 seasons the Browns finished the 1994 season with a 11-5 record and it looked like they were back to where they were in the late 1980's.

I've sung the praises regarding NFL Films for years. Their documentary series "A Football Life-Cleveland '95 does a great job telling about what happened that year. Early that season they got on a four game winning streak, then lost several in a row. Right after the Browns won their fifth game, Art Modell pulled the plug on Cleveland, announcing that he was moving the franchise to Baltimore in 1996.

I think all of us have seen the end results regarding clubs who finish seasons, good or bad, only to see franchises move in the off season. But this was the only situation that I know of where the owner states that the club will be moved to another city when the season still had several games left to be played. I can't imagine the humiliation the Browns fanbase had been dealt to them, much less what was on the players minds at the time. In that one hour documentary there is plenty of segs that shows the fans and the media's response to what Art Modell had done.

Then there was a 2 minute seg I saw on ESPN that I still remember 20 years later. It showed Lou Groza who was in tears just exploding in that seg that the fans, current players, and especially former players were done wrong. Lou Groza is one of my favorite old school NFL guys. How old school? He started his career with Cleveland when the AAFC (All American Football Conference) started in 1946, won the league championship, and several others until the remainder of the AAFC clubs merged with the NFL in 1951. He stayed with the club through 1964, when Cleveland blanked Unitas and the Colts 27-0 in the NFL Championship-a HUGE upset. He retired after the 1967 season. There was a 2 year gap that he was away from the game but all told had played 21 seasons as a defensive lineman and kicker. I consider Groza one of the top 10 Browns players ever-make it top five.

The documentary effectively shows who Belechik's staff was, where they went, where some of the players went, etc. A "what if" scenario? Yes, but that club had talent and I remember that season well.

What if?

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 01-17-2015 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 01-17-2015, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,114 posts, read 15,713,591 times
Reputation: 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
Very true, as I am plenty old enough to remember. Belichick over time has honed his skills to Hall of Fame material. And sadly many coaches are never given the chance to excel because the powers that be have no idea how to build a team for success. Was it fate that Bledsoe went down, and a #199 pick that no one really worried about was a Patriots pick and on the bench as a replacement? I suppose. And who's to say that if Brady and Belichick were never on the same team, how each individually would be today. And Ryan with the Jets hasn't had much to work with, so it's hard to get a really good idea about his true abilities. All I can say at this point in Rex's career is that for the past couple of years as a coach his team has gone downhill which is not a good direction.

I don't know Rex. He just seems sometimes to be a bag of hot air, but one whose players like to play for. And comparing the first few years of anyone's career is unfair, because some people are one and done material, while others continue to grow and prosper. Only time will tell which person Rex is.
All that is a very fair assessment. Look, what makes it hard to be objective about Rex is first and foremost he doesn't hold anything back and that rubs people the wrong way alot of times....especially quotes like this...lol. Most coaches today are extremely politically correct and its very hard to get emotion out of some of these guys....

Jets' Ryan: 'Im not here to kiss Belichick's ... rings' - Scoop Du Jour - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Has he made mistakes? Absolutely. I think if you go through some of my older posts discussing him, he's shown he could be too loyal (ie sticking w/Sanchez too long). His clock management especially before the half is not good at all..and you are always going to have his defense commit some stupid 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalties...bank on it.

He doesn't have control of the personnel, but the personnel that is in there will play their hardest and they will not quit. 2014 was awful. I've said this several times that Woody Johnson (Jets Owner) made a collasal mistake by keeping Idzik and Rex...Idzik was a horrible GM. Not sure if you guys saw the banners that flew over the practice field...fans got so passionate they started a website devoted to firing the guy and flew banners and placed billboards on highways so Woody got the message...lol

Home

Actually, Bills fans should be very excited. The organization is going in the right direction, but it will be interesting what they do at QB. Will they get Fitzpatrick for now? That's a discussion for the Bills thread.

Ok, I am sounding too much like a cheerleader for the guy, but I wanted to provide a perspective of a fan who read the NY Post and News every single day and followed his team for 6 years pretty closely, so I do have somewhat of an idea on what he's done when you get through the weeds....
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Old 01-17-2015, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,114 posts, read 15,713,591 times
Reputation: 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H View Post
When he took over the Cleveland program in 1991, without a doubt he had a lot of work to do, even though it was only 2 years removed from an '89 club that went to the AFC Championship game against Denver. Free agency, retirements, and trades started picking at the organization. And there was the Bernie Kosar situation in 1992. But after a couple of 7-9 seasons the Browns finished the 1994 season with a 11-5 record and it looked like they were back to where they were in the late 1980's.

I've sung the praises regarding NFL Films for years. Their documentary series "A Football Life-Cleveland '95 does a great job telling about what happened that year. Early that season they got on a four game winning streak, then lost several in a row. Right after the Browns won their fifth game, Art Modell pulled the plug on Cleveland, announcing that he was moving the franchise to Baltimore in 1996.

I think all of us have seen the end results regarding clubs who finish seasons, good or bad, only to see franchises move in the off season. But this was the only situation that I know of where the owner states that the club will be moved to another city when the season still had several games left to be played. I can't imagine the humiliation the Browns fanbase had been dealt to them, much less what was on the players minds at the time. In that one hour documentary there is plenty of segs that shows the fans and the media's response to what Art Modell had done.

Then there was a 2 minute seg I saw on ESPN that I still remember 20 years later. It showed Lou Groza who was in tears just exploding in that seg that the fans, current players, and especially former players were done wrong. Lou Groza is one of my favorite old school NFL guys. How old school? He started his career with Cleveland when the AAFC (All American Football Conference) started in 1946, won the league championship, and several others until the remainder of the AAFC clubs merged with the NFL in 1951. He stayed with the club through 1964, when Cleveland blanked Unitas and the Colts 27-0 in the NFL Championship-a HUGE upset. He retired after the 1967 season. There was a 2 year gap that he was away from the game but all told had played 21 seasons as a defensive lineman and kicker. I consider Groza one of the top 10 Browns players ever-make it top five.

The documentary effectively shows who Belechik's staff was, where they went, where some of the players went, etc. A "what if" scenario? Yes, but that club had talent and I remember that season well.

What if?
I haven't seen that documentary but I will definitely try to watch it sometime....You definitely know way more details of what I remember about Cleveland during that period...I just remember feeling that the fans defintely got the shaft w/that whole deal, and that the league NEEDS to have the browns and a team in Cleveland. Belichick was a big part of the NY Football Giants in the 80's w/Parcells...sometimes it takes a couple years to learn and find success...
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Old 01-17-2015, 10:51 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,600,840 times
Reputation: 18436
Rex Ryan has another chance to back up his big words, so we'll see. If he succeeds, I certainly will give him his just due. But if he fails, it will be no surprise, and his NFL coaching career will be over..at least for awhile at least.

One of my best friends lives in Buffalo. It would be nice to see him have something to cheer about for a change and I'd like to see Buffalo shakes things up a bit in the AFC.

So put up, or shut up, Rex!
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