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I think the whole "well it really didn't matter vs the Colts,but it was wrong against the Ravens" thing is if they were cheating all along,then the Ravens game was tarnished too and that outcome only being 4 points, makes a huge difference now.
As of right now the proof is there were 11 out of 12 balls deflated,not 1 or 3 but 11. There really is only one person responsible for this and that's Brady. There's no one on any team especially a team playing in a championship game that's going to mess with the qb's ball. Every qb out there is very particular about their football,all the balls used are not "brand new" they've been scuffed to get excess waxes off and used by the qb's in warm ups to make sure they're good enough for the game. The balls are then given to officials before each game for inspection and as long as nothings been "tampered" with all 12 go back the the team. So no way in hell would a ball boy tamper with these and even if they did,the only person who'd know this would be the qb, Brady in this instance. Anything that gives a team an advantage that's not regulation is cheating. If it had been my team sure I'd hate to think they'd lower themselves to this and I wouldn't like it but I'd still be mad as hell!
Let's move away from the details for a moment. I think there is a fine line between breaking the rules and cheating. They both imply the same thing, but from strictly an on the field aspect, I think there is a slight difference, that fine line if you will.
Lance Armstrong cheated. What he did gave him a direct and measurable advantage over his opponents, for 7 years no less. The McGuire Sosa home run year was fueled by PED's and thus a big advantage to the game where a home run backed by a player on PED's changes the score.
From most every account I have heard from players and coaches, the now two issues over the years of the Patriots have made a minimal, if any, change in the outcome of their overall success. I think irate non Patriot fans along with the media toss around the word cheater too loosely. Of course they broke the rules of the business they are in, and they should be reprimanded according to the dictates of their bosses, the office of the NFL. It's as important what the NFL does to the integrity of the sport/entertainment with their decision on this, because children grow up dreaming of playing in the NFL maybe when they first play Pop Warner.
Gixxer, please take my post as a debate, not "arguing". 1 or 3 out of 12 is acceptable, but 11 isn't? Isn't cheating all the same, no matter the amount? Now you just want to assume it's all on Brady, with absolutely no proof....Let me paint this scenario, you tell me if it's plausible. Let's assume for a minute that Brady likes the ball as soft as possible, that is allowed by league rules. He tells his equipment manager to make all the balls at 12.5 psi....the equipment manager takes too much out, or his gauge is off. My point is that you just can't assume that Brady arranged to purposely manipulate these footballs. Isn't that a bit of a reach?
It's not that he may have done the deflation himself. He is a professional QB. Are you telling us he can't tell the difference when a football is deflated?
If I had "invested" my money in a team in the form of buying jerseys, tickets, overpriced concessions, because the team was doing well and I found out the reason they were doing so well was that they were cheating, I would be upset.
Let's face it, the better a team does the more support it gets, financially. That support ultimately comes from the fans.
Are you trying to claim that the sole reason for the Pats success since 2002 is a few psi in a football?
If I had "invested" my money in a team in the form of buying jerseys, tickets, overpriced concessions, because the team was doing well and I found out the reason they were doing so well was that they were cheating, I would be upset.
Let's face it, the better a team does the more support it gets, financially. That support ultimately comes from the fans.
As a fan, this really is more the issue. I spent $250 on a jersey of my favorite athlete, Tom Brady (OK, my daughter got it for me ). That is a direct hit to the wallet. And my only problem as a Pats fan is for the rest of my life I will either have to defend against the taint they put on themselves or just not talk about them.
But, in the grand scheme of things, only the players in the sport pay the ultimate price. Sure they make boat loads of money. But it's their livelihood, and their legacy is their retirement. IMHO a person like Lance Armstrong, as much good as he did with charity, deserves the black marks on his career because his wins are directly related to what he did. Brady and Belichick are arguably one of the best at what they do, and now their legacy's will forever be tarnished because of what I could call egotistical stupidity on someone's part. It's a shame.
As in my previous post, I still think the word cheat in this case is wrong. It's breaking the rules. In some cases I don't think breaking the rules is always cheating because the rule that was broken really had no effect on the outcome (let's just assume for argument as compared to a sprinter taking PED's who runs .1 second faster and helps them win.
It's not that he may have done the deflation himself. He is a professional QB. Are you telling us he can't tell the difference when a football is deflated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keep It Simple
Are you trying to claim that the sole reason for the Pats success since 2002 is a few psi in a football?
The spirit of this thread was not to get caught up in details. Whether Brady is directly responsible or not (which I assume he has to know), the act in itself as with Spy Gate did not make the difference in their overall success. Every player and coach I've heard in the last week has said so, and their thoughts on this subject are the ones I trust the most, not the media or fans.. It's about the rules.
It's not that he may have done the deflation himself. He is a professional QB. Are you telling us he can't tell the difference when a football is deflated?
I absolutely think that he could tell what ball feels better in his hands....do I think any QB could say just by feel "well this ball is 12.58 psi and this ball is 14.6", no, I don't. Is it your expectation that if Brady likes the feel of the ball in his hands, he should turn to the official and say "Steratore, dude, this ball feels too good, I can really rip it, you need to take it out" LOL, no I wouldn't expect that. Don't officials handle the ball on every single play? I find it strange that if the feeling of the ball was that obvious, even they couldn't detect a difference.
Are you trying to claim that the sole reason for the Pats success since 2002 is a few psi in a football?
Some people say that the deflated balls would not change the outcome of any of the games. Then why the deflated balls. That argument doesn't fly. In the regular season the Pats had 4 wins with a differential of one score or less. Then there was the Ravens post season game. If the advantage is one score, the Patriots shouldn't even be in the post season this year.
There is a range of pressures that the NFL allows in the footballs. Some QBs like it near the low end, some like it near the high end. To have 11 out of 12 balls well below the minimum, can not be considered an accident. I was wondering, watching the Ravens game, why Tucker was not kicking the ball through the end zone, like he had been doing all season. I wonder if the NFL checked those balls as well.
The spirit of this thread was not to get caught up in details. Whether Brady is directly responsible or not (which I assume he has to know), the act in itself as with Spy Gate did not make the difference in their overall success. Every player and coach I've heard in the last week has said so, and their thoughts on this subject are the ones I trust the most, not the media or fans.. It's about the rules.
Yeah, I guess the details make the Pats fans feel bad, don't they. The Mod here must be a Pats fan.
No one can say that breaking the rules had no effect on the outcome. There is no way to know that.
The spirit of this thread was not to get caught up in details. Whether Brady is directly responsible or not (which I assume he has to know), the act in itself as with Spy Gate did not make the difference in their overall success. Every player and coach I've heard in the last week has said so, and their thoughts on this subject are the ones I trust the most, not the media or fans.. It's about the rules.
To me, Spy Gate brings up different thoughts. There was a lot reported back then concerning taping. Most had to do with signal calling because that is what the Patriots got busted for but there were several reports that the Patriot had recorded the Rams practice sessions prior to Super Bowl XXXVI. This was never proven so it mostly gets forgotten but many of the Rams players still believe this is true.. players which you put more credence in than media or fans. Now I don't know if they did video tape the Rams practice or not but every time something like this comes out about the Patriots it adds more weight to the idea that yea, the probably did tape the Rams practice before Super Bowl XXXVI.
I remember this game well. I had gone to a party watch this game but ended up leaving fairly early and finished watching the game at a friends home. We were both pulling hard for the Patriots because they were big under dogs and Brady was still relatively unknown. Great game, great ending, sad retrospect.
Some people say that the deflated balls would not change the outcome of any of the games. Then why the deflated balls. That argument doesn't fly. In the regular season the Pats had 4 wins with a differential of one score or less. Then there was the Ravens post season game. If the advantage is one score, the Patriots shouldn't even be in the post season this year.
There is a range of pressures that the NFL allows in the footballs. Some QBs like it near the low end, some like it near the high end. To have 11 out of 12 balls well below the minimum, can not be considered an accident. I was wondering, watching the Ravens game, why Tucker was not kicking the ball through the end zone, like he had been doing all season. I wonder if the NFL checked those balls as well.
It's a kicking ball, different set of balls then what the offense uses. I am not sure, but I beleve teams supply their own kicking balls as well. If that is indeed the case, his short kick offs have nothing to do with the Pats
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). That is a direct hit to the wallet. And my only problem as a Pats fan is for the rest of my life I will either have to defend against the taint they put on themselves or just not talk about them.