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Old 01-22-2015, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
6,486 posts, read 4,221,778 times
Reputation: 5762

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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
This is really the issue at hand. The Ray Rice issue to the NFL is much worst than what the Patriots have done, because it deals with a real life issue, domestic abuse.

As a business, Roger Goodell is ultimately in charge of the image of the NFL. Businesses spend millions of dollars on advertising to this business of the NFL. Look at the fallout from Tiger Woods? Cheating does hurt people, but from a simple fans perspective, fans are observers and looking for entertainment.
Ray Rice did nothing that affected the outcome of a game, although there is a rule regarding doing things that bring bad press to the NFL. Can't recall the exact wording right now. Even as a Ravens fan, I am glad he is no longer on the team.

Was there a specific rule that the Saints broke before they got sanctioned? It might be a specific rule now, if it wasn't then. They actually did things that affected the outcome of their game as well as some games their opponent played after the fact.

We can always stop watching NFL for entertainment and start watching professional wrestling. We know how fixed that is!

 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
6,486 posts, read 4,221,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatty MacButter View Post
Looks like you are getting into spin semantics here. "Breaking the rules" to gain an advantage over your opponent is cheating. (Regardless of the outcome).
Hence the new thread?
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:06 AM
 
6,521 posts, read 3,500,233 times
Reputation: 10339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatty MacButter View Post
Looks like you are getting into spin semantics here. "Breaking the rules" to gain an advantage over your opponent is cheating. (Regardless of the outcome).
True to a point, so I can't argue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
Ray Rice did nothing that affected the outcome of a game, although there is a rule regarding doing things that bring bad press to the NFL. Can't recall the exact wording right now. Even as a Ravens fan, I am glad he is no longer on the team.

Was there a specific rule that the Saints broke before they got sanctioned? It might be a specific rule now, if it wasn't then. They actually did things that affected the outcome of their game as well as some games their opponent played after the fact.

We can always stop watching NFL for entertainment and start watching professional wrestling. We know how fixed that is!
I am laughing at the wrestling reference, because I've thought the same thing. The NFL dealing with the crap makes it almost seem that way. It's not the actual on field game, but where cheating makes it almost look comical.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:10 AM
 
321 posts, read 225,870 times
Reputation: 480
What is the difference between cheating and violating the rules?

Grabbing a facemask
Underinflating balls
Performance Enhancing Drugs
Piping in music or crowd noise when the opposing team has the ball
Paying bounties on knocking out an opposing player from a game
A pick route

Are they all cheating? Or some rules violations and the others cheating?
How do they differ?
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:11 AM
 
6,521 posts, read 3,500,233 times
Reputation: 10339
Let me pose a question about cheating in sports and the fans perspective, which is who we are, fans.

The question is - Why does cheating bother people so much? Obviously in the Patriots case, fans of the Patriots are more inclined to jump to the defense and stand behind their success. Since I am a fan, although I can assume why other fans hate the cheating, I am wondering what is the Why factor here?

I could assume many things:
You team doesn't win
You do believe in integrity

Why was I hurt with Lance Armstrong cheating? Because I believed in his story. I believed in his resolve to overcome cancer, and he backed it with a great foundation. But to me it almost appears fraudulent as the empire was built on false wins.

I was hurt when Ben Johnson and Marion Jones were caught. I love Olympic sprinting, and they were awesome....until I found out it was fueled by performance enhancers.

Last edited by metalmancpa; 01-22-2015 at 10:29 AM..
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Non Extradition Country
2,164 posts, read 2,931,232 times
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We can't let a good crisis or scandal go to waste.

Be interesting to see what the next one is. Probably be nascar or baseball.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
1,759 posts, read 1,944,246 times
Reputation: 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post

True to a point, so I can't argue.
True to point? The point is it's cheating. Metalmancpa, I know you are hurting over this, and have conflicting feelings.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:17 AM
 
16,720 posts, read 14,805,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzincat View Post
At least Pete Rose never actually was caught doing anything other than gambling. He never cheated the game itself. Should the guilty parties in this be any less responsible?
Wasn't he gambling on his own games? And thus had a hand in the outcome? That's even worse than cheating, it's traitorous.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:20 AM
 
6,521 posts, read 3,500,233 times
Reputation: 10339
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustelid1971 View Post
What is the difference between cheating and violating the rules?

Grabbing a facemask
Underinflating balls
Performance Enhancing Drugs
Piping in music or crowd noise when the opposing team has the ball
Paying bounties on knocking out an opposing player from a game
A pick route

Are they all cheating? Or some rules violations and the others cheating?
How do they differ?
That's a great question really, and it depends on how you look at it.

In my opinion, when you talk about the penalties on the field that draw a flag, is it cheating and that's the penalty? Yes, maybe. But the league has made these penalties for immediate finalization of the issue. Pass interfere? It will cost your team 15 yards. PED's, all the Gates? Again, yes maybe. The problem is there are no real in game penalties for those, so it takes after the game to iron everything out.

Is it cheating when teams lie about an injury report so it effects the other teams planning? I suppose.

I try to be more objective than the simple word of cheating, because depending on the cheat, there is a scale of 1 to 100 as to it's effect on the outcome. Of course no one can really prove cheating's effect, but semantically speaking to your question, I suppose anything on the field that a yellow flag is thrown in breaking the rules and not cheating. But once it's off the field without a flag, then it's a gray area fpor which I don't have an answer for every cheat.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
6,486 posts, read 4,221,778 times
Reputation: 5762
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustelid1971 View Post
What is the difference between cheating and violating the rules?

Grabbing a facemask
Underinflating balls
Performance Enhancing Drugs
Piping in music or crowd noise when the opposing team has the ball
Paying bounties on knocking out an opposing player from a game
A pick route

Are they all cheating? Or some rules violations and the others cheating?
How do they differ?
Breaking a rule on one play is breaking the rule(s). Sometimes they get caught, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they get flagged when not breaking the rules. It's not a perfect situation. We cannot do without having refs on hand, either way. The refs do the best they can and deal out penalties on a case by case basis.

Intentionally breaking a rule for a whole game or multiple games is cheating. The refs in this case to not deal out the penalties beyond any one instance. The NFL has to step in.
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