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Old 05-17-2015, 03:40 PM
 
6,489 posts, read 3,481,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
I agree with everything you say, but i will add that only the Patriots can put an end to this mess because in all fairness, they can only blame themselves for whats' going. Yes, the NFL has screwed this up but the buck still starts and stops with the Patriots. They started the ball rolling so only they can stop it.
At least you and I can have a civil discussion about this, two people from which I assume are at least partially on opposite sides of the fence where I am a die hard Pats and Brady fan and you are not (again, assumed).

I think there are intangibles at play here, meaning the culture of football. I am not diminishing the fact that the Patriots have now been caught twice with their hands in the cookie jar. I'm also not naive enough to believe only the Patriots are the only team with players and/or coaches who do such things.

Then there is that word cheater. By definition I get it - rules in place, break rules, cheat. But I think it's a grayer subject in the NFL. Competitive advantage is cheating when rules are broken, but the law within the NFL allows a culture to exist where many infractions are deemed a slap on the wrist for being a competitive advantage. I believe any other team would not have seen such punishment. But when you catch your marquee player on the current dynasty team, the NFL needs to hear both sides - the culture and the fans who pay the bills.

What kills me about all of this is how football/NFL to the fan is life. In truth, football is nothing more than sports entertainment for the fan (and a job for the players). This isn't like me as a CPA dealing with the IRS, or an attorney dealing with a crime. It's a product we can choose to watch or not, and to spend money on or not. The fans have clouded the line I feel, and thus we have a story that shouldn't be a story. But alas, that's what sports is now, focusing as much not on the game but issues and morals behind it.
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,703 posts, read 4,245,503 times
Reputation: 4668
If the Pats were in my fav teams division or even conf i would be reveling in this... but they are not.. my team (Cowboys) rarely play the Pats so i don't have much ill will towards them. In fact, i was pulling for the Pats in the Super Bowl and have pulled for them in all of their recent Super Bowls.. except for 1. I was pulling for the Panthers in super bowl (?) but all the others I was pulling for the Pats for no other reason then they were playing a rival of the Cowboys.
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Old 05-18-2015, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa?
6,445 posts, read 4,202,530 times
Reputation: 5732
Deflated balls are supposedly helpful to the QB and running backs, because they are easier to grip. The amount of benefit may be negligible and definitely not quantifiable by any measurement. You can look back at the Pats' season and say that there were some games it most likely didn't make any difference, yet some where it might have.

The mistake that some here seem to be making is looking at the questionable advantage of deflating balls and disregarding the fact that by deflating the balls in the first place is against the rules. When you start applying the grayness of possible outcomes of cheating to the act of cheating in the first place, you begin to lose the argument that the Pats didn't do anything wrong. If there were no advantage or disadvantage to breaking a rule, there would be no reason for the rule in the first place. Yet the rule is there. The rule was broken, and it looks as though it was indeed intentional. It was then compounded by attempting to cover up the act.

My feeling is, that there should be two games for the act and two more for the attempt at the cover-up. And that is getting off lightly since both transgressions were intentional.
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:07 AM
 
9,692 posts, read 4,638,291 times
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Deflategate or whatever you want to call it, just needs to play out. what gets me is the constant whining about spygate. The only violation was that the videographer was standing in the wrong place. Taping the practices was legal. The Broncos broke the same rule three years later but you don't hear die-hard Chiefs fans like me calling them cheaters. The Broncos were also fined twice for salary cap violations, but we don't call them cheaters for that either. They have a very good organization.
Every team is looking for an edge. There is so much parity in the league that it takes an edge to win or a very good coach like Belichick, Tomlin or Carroll. If your team isn't winning, blame the owner or management.
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Old 05-18-2015, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Northwest Peninsula
3,244 posts, read 1,615,226 times
Reputation: 1746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox Harrington View Post
Seriously?

You need an answer to that question?

Why would the ball attendants ever just decide on their own that the balls should have less air?
That is actually my point?
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Old 05-18-2015, 05:58 PM
 
6,489 posts, read 3,481,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Deflategate or whatever you want to call it, just needs to play out. what gets me is the constant whining about spygate. The only violation was that the videographer was standing in the wrong place. Taping the practices was legal. The Broncos broke the same rule three years later but you don't hear die-hard Chiefs fans like me calling them cheaters. The Broncos were also fined twice for salary cap violations, but we don't call them cheaters for that either. They have a very good organization.
Every team is looking for an edge. There is so much parity in the league that it takes an edge to win or a very good coach like Belichick, Tomlin or Carroll. If your team isn't winning, blame the owner or management.
I hear you, but this argument falls mostly on deaf ears. I'm a happy Patriots fan used to the hate and name calling. That's OK, because the last 14 years have been something to behold, the longest running dynasty in NFL history. My team, and proud.

If I am to say something to the non-Patriot fans - we win because we cheat better than your team does.
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:50 PM
 
2,495 posts, read 3,650,151 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
I hear you, but this argument falls mostly on deaf ears. I'm a happy Patriots fan used to the hate and name calling. That's OK, because the last 14 years have been something to behold, the longest running dynasty in NFL history. My team, and proud.

If I am to say something to the non-Patriot fans - we win because we cheat better than your team does.
Lol some teams play by the rules...that your team has a culture of cheating and getting caught, does not mean the rest of the league cheats.
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Old 05-18-2015, 08:16 PM
 
3,723 posts, read 3,892,774 times
Reputation: 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Percentage View Post
Lol some teams play by the rules...that your team has a culture of cheating and getting caught, does not mean the rest of the league cheats.
I keep hearing people claim the Patriots have a culture of cheating. Please elaborate as to how they have a culture of cheating. Because if the Patriots have a culture of cheating then several other NFL teams also have a culture of cheating.
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:20 PM
 
9,692 posts, read 4,638,291 times
Reputation: 5505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Percentage View Post
Lol some teams play by the rules...that your team has a culture of cheating and getting caught, does not mean the rest of the league cheats.
The Broncos have cheated at least twice, the Browns have cheated, the Saints have cheated, The Steelers have cheated, these are just the ones off the top of my head that have been caught.
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:13 AM
 
2,495 posts, read 3,650,151 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAM88 View Post
I keep hearing people claim the Patriots have a culture of cheating. Please elaborate as to how they have a culture of cheating. Because if the Patriots have a culture of cheating then several other NFL teams also have a culture of cheating.
Lol the good ole tactics of placing the Onus of proof on the other person. Nah, the Pats are in the news for a reason and this is not their first or second rodeo. Cheats!!!
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