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Old 08-06-2009, 01:19 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,933,218 times
Reputation: 1298

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I laugh at this contract. It's going to be the killer for the Giants. Manning has never been great, not in college, not in the NFL. He "won" super bowl because of the Giant Defense and some lucky catches by his receivers. He's not accurate, he's not mobile and he certainly not that smart. He's not even the best Manning Brother. For $97,000,000 they could have gotten an actual franchise QB. People point to 2008 and say "Eli can win in the playoffs".

As for playoff records:
#1 His defense did that for him.
#2 Joe Montana was 16-7 in the playoffs
Elway was 14-8
TOM BRADY is 14-3 (and I can't stand him)
Ben Roethlisberger (ditto, hate that rapist) is 8-2
4-3 is actually 0-3 if you exclude his one super bowl run which was led by his defense.
Joe Montana and Steve Young are a combined 5-0 in the Super Bowl.
Roethsliberger is 2-0 in the SB.
By the playoff record logic, the most similar QB in the league to Manning is Brad Johnson:
4-4 playoffs, 1-0 Super Bowl, .576 winning %, not that far off from Manning. Take his QB rating into account (83.5 over Eli's pathetic 76) and those two are about equal. Johnson was never considered to be one of the best and was never paid like a superstar. Eli shouldn't be either.

Based on Eli's career year last year (his QB rating was a full 10 points higher than his previous best), he is slightly worse at the QB position than Shaun Hill, Seneca Wallace, Matt Ryan, Matt Schuab, Jeff Garcia and Matt Cassell. Considering that all but Ryan are journeymen, being paid $97,000,000 seems like a stretch for a mediocre QB. Manning isn't even as good as two other 1st round QBs from 2004! Rivers and Roethlisberger are both vastly superior to him in every way except the Charger's defense without Merriman.
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,550,430 times
Reputation: 10490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Life View Post
I laugh at this contract. It's going to be the killer for the Giants. Manning has never been great, not in college, not in the NFL. He "won" super bowl because of the Giant Defense and some lucky catches by his receivers. He's not accurate, he's not mobile and he certainly not that smart. He's not even the best Manning Brother. For $97,000,000 they could have gotten an actual franchise QB.
Right on all counts.

But guess what? The Giants locked themselves into a publicity nightmare when they started promoting Manning as the Next All-Everything Quarterback. Then he happened to be in the right place at the right time and won the Super Bowl. They couldn't have done much else than sign him to a contract like that.

They'll be paying for this (in more than one sense) for a long time. And it will serve them right.
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,550,430 times
Reputation: 10490
Considering that Manning isn't even the best of Archie's sons playing in the NFL, don't you think that contract offer was just a tiny little bit excessive? As someone else pointed out in another thread, for that money the Giants could've gotten a REAL franchise quarterback. Hell, they could almost have gotten a real franchise, period.
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:31 PM
 
3,157 posts, read 8,123,323 times
Reputation: 1977
Did the Giants really have a choice?

They had two options:

1) Pay him 97 million.
2) Let him go.

If the Giants didn't pay him, someone else would have, and then the Giants would have had to rebuild with a new QB. The Giants have the money, why not go with the sure thing?

Someone in the Washington Post made a good point about this: If Matthew Stafford is worth 72 million without playing a game, can you really complain about a Super Bowl winner being worth 97 million? That's just how the game works these days.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:22 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,933,218 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcity View Post
Did the Giants really have a choice?

They had two options:

1) Pay him 97 million.
2) Let him go.

If the Giants didn't pay him, someone else would have, and then the Giants would have had to rebuild with a new QB. The Giants have the money, why not go with the sure thing?

Someone in the Washington Post made a good point about this: If Matthew Stafford is worth 72 million without playing a game, can you really complain about a Super Bowl winner being worth 97 million? That's just how the game works these days.
Yeah, when he's as mediocre as Manning, I'd complain if I was a Giants fan. You can also sign someone like Schuab for half that and get better statistics. You could also sign Chad Pennington (2nd in QB rating) for 1/9th that. Matt Cassel was a free agent who signed for $30,000,000 less and who was a better QB.

Plenty of teams have done that "if we let him go, we'll be worse" and have come to realize their mistake later with a massive contract that kills the team. As a Warriors fan, I am definitely familiar with this. We signed Adonal Foyle (who I was a fan of) for 50,000,000, we signed Erick Dampier for $48,000,000 too. Those kinds of contracts kill teams. The reason why he's mediocre is because there are plenty of other guys who can perform just as well. Take away his stats from last season and he's not even mediocre, he's bad. Are you telling me that David Carr couldn't be mediocre? Are you saying they couldn't just sign JP Losman and not see much of a drop-off?

Without David Tyree, Manning would have been another Super Bowl loser...so what kind of contract does Tyree have? 1/15th of Mannings...

What did Kurt Warner cost the Rams the year he came out of nowhere?

A hungry QB who is fighting for his NFL life is going to be more effective than a mediocre QB who has already won the big game and who is set financially for life.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
623 posts, read 1,350,318 times
Reputation: 347
Yes, Eli Manning's overpaid, but David Carr's garbage. Complete garbage. The Giants would be much worse off with Carr.

Your Warriors need to re-sign C.J. Watson, Pug Life.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:44 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,933,218 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by VolDude View Post
Yes, Eli Manning's overpaid, but David Carr's garbage. Complete garbage. The Giants would be much worse off with Carr.

Your Warriors need to re-sign C.J. Watson, Pug Life.
Eh, Carr was only garbage in Houston because his line was the worst in history. Anyone getting sacked 70+ times who can still keep his Int % below 3.5% has something going for him. Look at the stats, Carr and Manning have IDENTICAL Int% and Y/A in their careers, despite the fact that Manning had a HOF defense and Carr played for the lowly expansion Texans, how would that be a drop off?

Actually, looking at career numbers, Carr is less prone to mistakes (based on Int %) than Brett Favre, Dante Culpepper, Warren Moon, Phil Simms, Tony Romo, Brian Griese, Jim Kelly and Steve DeBerg.


BTW, CJ is awesome. That Belinelli trade was garbage. I don't want to lose Biedrins for Stoudemire. Curry was actually the right pick for them in that spot and if the 2 Anthonys don't get 25+ MPG this year, we'll miss the playoffs yet again. Randolph is AMAZING (most talented player I've ever seen on the Warriors, and I've been a fan for over 20 years) and Morrow has the best shooting stroke in the NBA. The D is mediocre at best, but they'll put up 115 a night with the right lineup.
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Old 08-08-2009, 07:51 PM
FBJ
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,615 posts, read 50,353,052 times
Reputation: 9451
reasons why he is not a 97 mill QB

1. Has no mobility

2. Interception Prone when Giants are trailing

3. Intimidated by Defensive pressure
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Old 08-09-2009, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,943 posts, read 19,169,679 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Life View Post
Eh, Carr was only garbage in Houston because his line was the worst in history. Anyone getting sacked 70+ times who can still keep his Int % below 3.5% has something going for him. Look at the stats, Carr and Manning have IDENTICAL Int% and Y/A in their careers, despite the fact that Manning had a HOF defense and Carr played for the lowly expansion Texans, how would that be a drop off?

Actually, looking at career numbers, Carr is less prone to mistakes (based on Int %) than Brett Favre, Dante Culpepper, Warren Moon, Phil Simms, Tony Romo, Brian Griese, Jim Kelly and Steve DeBerg.
Carr could have been a really good quarterback, but like you mentioned he was practically beaten to death because the Texans could never protect him. As a result, he never really developed as a quarterback and now he's on the wrong side of 30 playing as a journeyman backup.

If someone with a good QB coach or QB friendly system picks him up, I wouldn't be surprised if he turns him into Flutie/Cunningham/Chandler esque project who finishes out his career with a few serious playoff pushes.

As for Eli, he may not be a great quarterback but he's shown that he can step up and make the plays needed to win the big games. With the defense they've built, that's really all they need of him.
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,550,430 times
Reputation: 10490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
As for Eli, he may not be a great quarterback but he's shown that he can step up and make the plays needed to win the big games. With the defense they've built, that's really all they need of him.
Well, he did step up once. Obviously, the Giant front office thinks he can do it again.
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