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Old 08-27-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,553,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egobop View Post
I hear Giant fans compare Eli to his brother all of the time stating how Peyton took a few years to become as good as he is now. They are waiting for this to happen with Eli. It is my belief that he has already passed that point and is still mediocre. I can be wrong but I do not think so. I watch him make the same mistakes now as he made when he first started.
I believe you hit the nail on the head. Eli isn't Peyton...and for that matter, he isn't anywhere near the shadow of his father, either. (Oh, if only Archie Manning had had a real line in front of him when he played for the Saints. He'd be called one of the greatest quarterbacks ever!)
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Old 08-27-2009, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,943 posts, read 19,169,679 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
I believe you hit the nail on the head. Eli isn't Peyton...and for that matter, he isn't anywhere near the shadow of his father, either. (Oh, if only Archie Manning had had a real line in front of him when he played for the Saints. He'd be called one of the greatest quarterbacks ever!)
The difference is that the Giants and Colts operate under completely different philosophies. The Colts drafted Peyton and built a very potent offense around him, while the Giants drafted Eli and instead built a very tough defense and asked Eli to simply manage the game, not lose them any games and occasionally make the big play. Eli has done that, and now he has a Super Bowl ring just like his brother.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:38 PM
 
16,532 posts, read 20,994,530 times
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Fred314x is right about Archie Manning. After being an expansion team and into it's third or forth season, you'd have thought a team with a future would have been built there. Archie Manning's club was outmanned. It was a good thing he was a scrambler because he spent a good portion of his career running for his life.

And it was never more evident than the Monday night game in 1980 where the fans put paper bags over their heads. I REALLY felt bad for Archie that night.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,933,218 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5 View Post
Firstly, please don't make a case for the Giants playing David Carr over Eli Manning. If that is the contention, you lose any credibility instantly.

Here is the bottom line. The Giants franchise is a goldmine. Eli is a good quarterback who shows flashes of brilliance, along with some frustrating decisions. Just about every QB in the league makes mistakes, some of them as a result of their recievers running the wrong route or lack of protection.
If you are a Giant fan and watch all of their games, you would know that Eli has suffered from his recievers running bad routes. He is still a young kid and will only improve, if he stays healthy.

Today, Phillip Rivers signed a huge contract as well. Does he deserve the money? I don't think so. He has had one good season and his team did not win squat.

Eli has a Super Bowl ring, does McNabb, Rivers, Romo, Warner, Cutler etc...?

Last point is that, yes, the Giant defense is good, but not considered the best in the league. If anyone remembers the Giant teams for the 80's and early 90's, they had a tremendous defense. Sims, considered by many to be a great QB, was coached to not lose the game. Just throw it away and let your D get you the ball back.

Time will tell what Eli will become. Is he worth the money? It is not my money, so I don't give a shi*! More power to him. BTW, I bet he got calls from Brady and Peyton thanking him for setting the bar.
Carr was a #1 overall pick who didn't have the advantage of being the son and brother of All-Pro quarterbacks. Carr has a career 59.7%, Manning is at 55.9%. Carr has a career 3.2 Int %, so does Manning. Carr has a career 6.4 yards/attempt average, so does Manning. Carr has been sacked 10.6% of the time while Manning has only been sacked 5% of the time. So basically, Carr is a better quarterback statistically in his career. Think Manning could ever lead the league in completion percentage like Carr did? The only thing Manning has ever led the league in is INTERCEPTIONS!

Rivers is VASTLY superior as a quarterback and yet his contract is smaller.
Saying "He has a Super Bowl Ring" is pretty dumb because a lot of scrubs have rings...anyone who works for the team has a ring.
My dentist growing up was the team dentist for the San Francisco Giants and he was given a World Series ring for his contribution to the team's dental health. Would that ring qualify him to start at Shortstop? So why would a Super Bowl ring make so much of a difference? Wouldn't Tom Brady have been able to win that game too? After all, in the same game he had a higher completion %, more yards, and no interceptions. His defense just couldn't stop David Tyree from making that circus catch that saved Manning's career.

If Rivers is so bad, how come he's been better in every single statistical category for the past three years? The Chargers went 14-2 in 2006 and Rivers had a 92 rating and only 9 interceptions. The same year the Giants went 8-8 and Manning had a 77 rating. 2007 (the year Manning gets paid for...) Rivers led the Chargers to an 11-5 record while posting a 82.4 rating before losing to the still-undefeated Patriots, Manning led the Giants to a 10-6 record while posting a pathetic 73.9 rating and a league leading 20 interceptions. Last season the Chargers suffered a devastating injury that decimated their defense while they posted an 8-8 record, but Rivers led the league in TDs, TD%, Y/A and Quarterback Rating...Manning had the best year of his career and it was still below the quality of River's 2006 season. Add in the fact that Manning is a year older than Rivers. So while Manning will be 29 when the playoffs start, Rivers will only be 28. So where in those numbers does Manning deserve more money? Is it in the regular season records they've posted over the last 3 years? (Rivers is 33-15, Manning is 30-18) Maybe it's in the fact that Rivers is better at throwing TDs while also being better at avoiding INTs? How about the fact that Manning's best completion % is basically equal to Rivers' worst?

Football is a game where 33 (O/D/ST) guys have to play their best game to win a super bowl, not just one player can win it. To throw the future of the team's finances into the tank because one guy happened to have the last name Manning and was lucky enough to be playing with the Giant's defense (which had to be great to stop the Pats) is pretty foolish. Being a 49ers fan, I know all about how a dynasty can collapse...well, the Giants weren't a dynasty, and tying down the QB position to a mediocre QB just guarantees them financial troubles later. They wont be able to sign big-name free agents (again, the salary cap), they wont be able to re-sign their younger stars and they will pass up a number of talented QBs because the roster spot will already be filled by a 34 year old over-the-hill QB making $10,000,000+.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:51 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,933,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedaddicted View Post
Winning 1 superbowl doesnt make you a great QB, I'm sorry it just doesnt. I agree with Egobop that Eli is overpaid. Hell Trent DIlfer won a superbowl and so did Brad Johnson. Are they great??
Super Bowl V - Earl Morrall, Baltimore Colts*
Super Bowl XX - Jim McMahon, Chicago
Super Bowl XXII - Doug Williams, Washington
Super Bowl XXV - Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants**
Super Bowl XXVI - Mark Rypien, Washington (who is the one most similar to Manning, at Manning's best)
Super Bowl XXXV - Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens (who is also quite similar to Manning)
Super Bowl XXXVII - Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay (who is superior to Manning in every way)

Yeah, winning a Super Bowl automatically makes one deserving of being the highest paid QB in history!
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,933,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egobop View Post
My point is that you can get a quarterback as good or better than him for a lot less money. You do not need the big names you mentioned. You said that they do not need a great quarterback which may be true but there is no need to pay a middle of the line quarterback the superstar salary. If they picked up a mediocre quarterback with a different last name and paid him less money they would have more cap room for building up the defense even more in the future.

At this time my belief is that they are paying him for the "Manning" name. His brother is a great quarterback and even though he is not as good they are hoping that the Giants fans will keep buying the tickets hoping that he will soon turn into his brother. If they picked up someone with an unknown name who is mediocre such as he is right now the Giants fans would be up in arms.

I hear Giant fans compare Eli to his brother all of the time stating how Peyton took a few years to become as good as he is now. They are waiting for this to happen with Eli. It is my belief that he has already passed that point and is still mediocre. I can be wrong but I do not think so. I watch him make the same mistakes now as he made when he first started.
When Peyton was 24 he had already led the league in Yards, TDs and Completions. Even in his rookie year, he threw for 3700+ yards and 26 TDs.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Suffolk County, NY
874 posts, read 2,492,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Life View Post
When Peyton was 24 he had already led the league in Yards, TDs and Completions. Even in his rookie year, he threw for 3700+ yards and 26 TDs.
AND 28 interceptions. The point is that his first year was definitely good but he did actually get even better after that year. I personally think he was great from the beginning but I was referring to things I have heard Giants fans say as a comparison. I have often heard Giants fans say that it took Peyton a few years to get really good and Eli will do the same. I do not see Eli becoming as good as his brother.
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Old 08-30-2009, 06:45 AM
 
2,915 posts, read 3,323,136 times
Reputation: 3140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egobop View Post
AND 28 interceptions. The point is that his first year was definitely good but he did actually get even better after that year. I personally think he was great from the beginning but I was referring to things I have heard Giants fans say as a comparison. I have often heard Giants fans say that it took Peyton a few years to get really good and Eli will do the same. I do not see Eli becoming as good as his brother.
I agree that Eli will not be as good as Peyton, but who is? Certainly not Phillip Rivers. This guy had one good season. If Pug wants to come back in a few years and discuss why he has a man crush on Phillip Rivers, then we can talk. Until then, I will stick with Eli.
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Old 08-30-2009, 08:32 AM
FBJ
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,615 posts, read 50,353,052 times
Reputation: 9451
Lots of people get BLINDED by the Giants SB ring and forget that Eli Bumbled and stumbled his away out of being sacked. And then once he got away he just threw the ball up for grabs and prayed someone came down with it which was David Tyree's circus catch.


Eli depended on Palxico all the time and he is no longer there

Eli can't run and has poor movement in the pocket

Eli is more interception prone when his team is trailing


So this contract is a JOKE
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic
1,072 posts, read 1,833,977 times
Reputation: 928
Default Latest for Giants fans !!!

NY Giants' rookie Hakeem Nicks has 'earned the right to be a factor' - NJ.com and one more Frustrated Osi Umenyiora leaves Giants' facility, later admits mistake - NJ.com
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