U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-22-2008, 07:47 AM
 
6,760 posts, read 10,442,710 times
Reputation: 2996

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger View Post
How many Packers game have you actually watched?.......you'd know the exact same thing happened in Philadelphia in an NFC Championship game,
Wow, you obviously don't watch very much football considering Favre has never played against the Eagles in the NFC Championship. To save you further embarassment, I'll give you some help. It was the divisional playoff. The Eagles lost to Carolina in the NFC championship that year. You know, how they lost the NFC championship 3 years straight, and then lost the superbowl. And its not like Favre ever should have had to throw that pass. The Packers defense gave up a 4th and 26, otherwise the game would have been over. Sure Favre doesn't make all the best decisions, but he's got more wins than any other QB EVER. So he's made the right decisions more than he's made the wrong ones. 2 years ago he recorded a career high in interceptions. Not a good thing. But its not like he was playing with much of a supporting cast. Almost everyone else on offense got injured and missed games that year. The Packers were calling up receivers from the inactive list on Mondays to play the following Sunday. They had no running game at all. The offensive line was banged up and Favre was getting pressured by even the weakest D-lines in the league.

At least Favre has led his team to a superbowl WIN, something not many quarterbacks EVER get to claim. As a matter of fact, only 27 QB's have been superbowl winners. I'd say Favre is in the elite, considering the hundreds of qb's who have tried to just get there. Look at the all time greats who just couldn't win a ring: Archie Manning, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Marino. And there have been a lot of greats who were never remembered because their overall stats didn't make the top 5 lists plus they were without a ring, while some qb's were elevated to eliteness simply because of postseason play that went beyond what seemed possible judging by thier regular season play, Joe Montana comes to mind.


In all fairness, sure Favre should get the scorn for when it goes wrong, because he gets the glory when it all goes right. Thats just the way it works with NFL QB's, and that is why Favre gets more glory than anything else, because he so often WINS.

The Giants would have never been in overtime with the Packers if Al Harris hadn't been OWNED the whole game by Burress. And Woodson was not doing much better either. Grant couldn't find a hole to save his life, and the normall exceptional GB receivers were not getting open against a "mediocre" pass defense. Sure Favre made some bad throws, but to pin the loss on him is absurd. The Packers lost as a team. They were lucky to even have had a chance to go into overtime, as the Giants missed a couple of field goals they should have made. They were outplayed completely by a Giants team that is hungry. The Giants beat Tampa, and then proceeded to knock off the #1 and #2 seeds all games on the road. I think they deserve a hell of a lot of respect right now, as they are playing excellent football.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-22-2008, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Central Nebraska
1,821 posts, read 4,642,784 times
Reputation: 5065
I also have to disagree with you saying Farve won a Super Bowl only because he was on a loaded team. To win a Super Bowl you have to have a darn good team. The guys you mentioned, Montana and Young had loaded teams, especially on offense, Elway didn't win until he got a running game with Terrell Davis, Marino never won a Super Bowl. The guy has won more games than anyone else, and a Super Bowl, that is what means more than any touchdown or interception record.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2008, 11:03 AM
 
6,760 posts, read 10,442,710 times
Reputation: 2996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger View Post
Brett Favre makes too many boneheaded plays to be considered an elite QB. He has shown a great, strong and accurate arm over many years but also the penchant for making rediculous plays. With the game on the line and a chance for a drive to end it last night against the Giants he throws a ball he has no business throwing, gets picked, the Giants go on to score and win. The last time he was in the NFC championship game at Philly he did the same thing. He's given the Packers some wins through the years but he's also been responsible for really stupid throws that have cost his team the game. Did Montana, Elway, Marino or Young consistently make such boneheaded throws throughout their careers? I would understand this if had been in the league for only 3 years but he's like an 18 year veteran and it never changes. He's 12-10 lifetime in the PO's.
Nonsensical arguments here. Dan Marino finished his career with 252 INT's, not too far behind Favre. Of course, Favre also has about 300-350 more pass attempts, which percentage wise puts them pretty close to even, Favre also has 22 more TD's than what was once thought to be an unbreakable record. Marino was also 32 td's and 24 int's in the playoffs. Favre: 39 and 28. John Elway: 300 career td's, 226 int's. Worse ratio than Favre or Marino. Playoffs for elway: 27 td's, 21 int's. Career ratio's in playoffs, Favre best, Marino 2nd, Elway 3rd. Steve Young and Joe Montana would be your better arguments here. I'd steer clear of using Elway and Marino. Fact is, Elway lost a lot of superbowls before he finally returned and won. His boneheaded plays helped the Broncos get crushed and his performances were dismal at best before they acquired a better defense and solid running game. Elway would be a footnote in history had he not stuck around for the 2 superbowl wins, because prior to that, he was a grade A choker in the playoffs. But he redeemed himself, and most importantly for his reputation, he redeemed himself at the end of his career and rode off into the sunset a champion. Marino never redeemed himself, throwing 1 td and 2 picks in the only superbowl he ever led his team to. I don't think Favre is the greatest ever, but he's my favorite and ARGUABLY the greatest.

Quote:
Where would Brett Favre be without the West Coast offense? What if he actually had to throw the ball downfield more often? One of the reasons Mike Holmgren always sat on leads (7 pts no less) was that he never trusted BF to throw the ball downfield, always fearing another pick.
Not the case at all. Holmgren never sat on leads, the Packers built leads by throwing the ball well, they sat on them late in the fourth like any team would do who is trying to keep the clock running.

Quote:
He says the records don't matter to him but this is complete BS! After he threw the TD record at the Metrodome this year he was jumping around like he just won the Super Bowl!
I was jumping up and down in my living room, and it wasn't because of the record, it was because the Packers put 7 on the board. Favre celebrates almost every touchdown he throws like he just won the game. Its called enjoying the game. Everytime the Packers score Favre can be seen looking for the nearest Packer to run up and hug or high five. Even when they went 4-12 he celebrated touchdowns like they were doing great. Too bad you are so annoyed by someone who plays the game to have fun. Favre has always said the day he stops having fun on the field is the day he walks away.

Quote:
He's very aware of the records despite his "aw shuks" persona with the media. He even made mention how important the consc. games streak was to him when he was on the painkillers.
More jive? So he wants to start every single game without missing one? Wow, he's terrible. Players should play just hoping they get to start, not really wanting to though by your logic I guess. There is not a player out there who doesn't play to win, and practice and work towards being able to start. If they have that mentality, either they don't make it to the NFL, or they don't last long at all in the NFL.

Quote:
I think one of the main reasons he came back this year was precisely because he was so close to so many records. I think he'll play again next year to pad his stats. Two years ago when the GB Packers were 3 and whatever he started and played in almost every minuete of every game. There was no reason at all they could not have played Aaron Rodgers more that year but they had to keep BF in to keep getting his stats. I even understand letting him start the games to keep his streak in tact as you could argue he shouldn't lose that b/c the team was bad but there was simply no reason for him to play so many mins. when the Pack were 3-10.
Thats a joke. Maybe you missed the season they did so badly. Their star up and coming receiver Javon Walker? Season ended in the first game of the season. Robert Ferguson went out in the 2nd or 3rd game and missed most of the season. Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, and Tony Fisher all went out for either the season or most of it. Promising rookie Terrance Murphy who started the season strong suffered a career ending injury in the first 4 weeks. The Packers let go Darren Sharper, the only star defensive back they had. They also cut loose Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera, the 2 pro bowl offensive lineman, due to salary cap issues. Its honestly a wonder that the Packers won 4 games with all that was wrong with the team. Throwing Rodgers in the middle of that would have been pushing him into a meat grinder. The only reason Favre came back this year was because they Packers finished last season very strong and Favre felt they would be even better this year. Guess he was right. If he comes back again, its because he knows they were the youngest team in the NFL, and will be losing almost no one to free agency, and they have room under the salary cap to pick up at least 1 star.


Quote:
Everybody seems to forget that he was very vocal this offseason towards the front office saying how the Packers should've signed Randy Moss and when they didn't he told his agent to request a trade. He has subsequently denied this of course but the Milwaukee media has reported this during the past offseason.
Favre knew what Moss's capabilities were. A lot of people doubted Moss. Look at those doubters now after Moss pulled down an NFL record number of touchdowns and way over 1000 yards. Favre offered to lose part of his salary to pay for Randy Moss. Sure Favre was upset that they didn't jump on it before the Patriots picked up Moss. Whether or not Favre requested a trade is nothing more than speculation. If he did, thats his own personal call.

Quote:
He has a tendency to throw high to recievers and get them hurt as well. Just ask Robert Brooks or even Donald Driver about that.
This is funny. Most receivers get high passes thrown from time to time. It happens. Can you prove he does this more than other qb's? No.

Quote:
He has lost alot of accuracy on his ball over the last 3 years. He'll always be able to chuck the ball downfield 60 yards but his accuracy has diminished quite a bit. Even the beat writers for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal have said that and quoted various front office and player personnel people in the NFL who'll say that.
He drilled the ball with precision most of the year. Look at his stats compared to the other 31 qb's in the NFL. Only 3-4 did better. I will take a top 5 qb in the league any day of the week.

Quote:
Antother thing that bothers me about such a highly esteemed QB is that he has been, at various points throughout his career, afraid to take hits. Remember the PO game at Lambeau against the Vikings when if he just would have dove near the goal line he would have got a first down? There have been other instances but yet his rep. is of a "tough guy" in the league. At 35 he didn't have the courage to do what John Elway did in SB 32 against the Packers. How ironic. And I hate Elway.
Maybe you haven't seen some of the times Favre has thrown blocks for running backs on plays that the rb was forced to reverse field. You pick out a few plays you don't like, but you have to ignore plenty of other plays that contradict your claims.

Quote:
He was lucky to win one SB on a loaded team. He was just a part of that team with Desmond Howard winning the MVP of that game. Reggie White coming to GB had a bigger influence on the Packers than BF has. It was Reggie White who gave small GB credibility throughout the rest of the NFL and inparticular to many of the (black) players that signed on as free agents. The 96 Packers defense was just as good as the 85 Bears statistically.
Thats because their defense wasn't on the field as much as most other years, and they were playing with a lead. The offense was ranked in the top 5 for the season. And for the record, most teams that win superbowls are loaded, thats why they win. No team wins because of one player only. Ever.



Quote:
Finally, I must say, I was completely embarrassed to be a Packer fan a few weeks back when Brett Favre was standing in the cold of Soldier Field with a look on his face like he just couldn't stand to be there. He looked like he was being tortured or something, as though he didn't care if they won or lost. He had a similar look on his face last night. I mean, they're from GB for criseakes!
Yeah, I'm sure you've never had a bad day.

Quote:
I really think he's got his one ring, many of the records, all the money he could ask for, all the fame, a spot in the hall, what's left for him but to pad his stats? I just don't think he really cares anymore. Watching the press conference last night there was no real emotion, just a few shrugs of the shoulders like it was no big deal. I expect more from him. Mostly, I expect him to, after 18 years in the league, stop making such absurd throws he has no business making. I can't think of another big time QB that makes such plays, afterall, he's also the all-time Interception leader as well. Brett Favre is the most overrated QB to play in the NFL over the last 20 years.
Refer to above stats on int ratios, and Elway and Marino making absurd throws. And while we're at it, other than last year, Peyton Manning has made some pretty bad throws in the playoffs. You are just bitter, no other explanation for your arguments.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2008, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Popeyes
762 posts, read 1,486,561 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Greensboro Resident View Post
What are you talking about dude?? The Giants sucked??!! The same Giants that beat Tampa Bay at home and the #1 seed, Dallas at home, then Greenbay at home!! The same Giants that nearly beat the Pats!! And How did the Packers suck if they were the #2 seed and got far in the playoffs? They only had 3 losses with that young roster. They did not suck, they just lost one game to a better team, the Giants peaked at the right time, that's all. With that young roster, that Defense, WRs etc.... the Pack will be back next year.
I was saying the GAME not the teams because all of us were in the playoffs for a reason. You really think that the giants and the packers played well against each other tho??? That game was nothing but mistakes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2008, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,675 posts, read 7,851,911 times
Reputation: 2333
I really did enjoy watching it. The "got jacked up" hits by themselves were great. The way, Al Harris and Plaxico Burress were going at it. AJ Hawk is stud, so is Giant's MLB, Mitchel or whatever his name is. It was a good defensive game for someone like me who is really not a fan of either team. Now to your point, I could see that game not being very good if I were the fan of either team. Also you have to keep in mind that the Temp was absolutely brutal. Just my two cents.......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2008, 01:19 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,566,508 times
Reputation: 18436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger View Post
he's not being comdemned for a few mistakes in the twilight of his career but rather a series of horrible decisions throughout his career. He makes decisions that a rookie would make. He's the all-time leading interception leader for a reason.
Brett Favre put the previously hapless Packers on the map, elevated them to national prominence. Show some respect for this man. He is and will always be considered a great QB despite the mistakes.

I'm a Bears fan at heart. But I have to give credit where it is due.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2008, 03:42 PM
 
9,585 posts, read 8,903,892 times
Reputation: 5814
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Greensboro Resident View Post
THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT I HAVE SAID. You obviously have not read all the posts before responding. Or maybe you just didn't understand them. I am not a Packers fan. I have given credit to the Giants for what they have done, I'm rooting for them against the Evil Empire. I am only defending Favre and saying that this loss can not be entirely put on his back I have actually said in the other thread that the Packers didn't lose this game, the Giants won it, they were the better team. WHAT PART OF MY POST ABOVE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?? THE PART WHERE I BRAG ABOUT THE GIANTS BEATING THE #1 SEED DALLAS AT HOME OR THE PART ABOUT THE GIANTS BEATING TAMPA AND GREENBAY AT HOME? YOU ARE WAY OUT OF LINE!

Read all the posts, get all of your facts straight before you open your pie hole!
Whooooaaa!!!! relax! I hooked it to the wrong quote. Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2008, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,675 posts, read 7,851,911 times
Reputation: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp03 View Post
Whooooaaa!!!! relax! I hooked it to the wrong quote. Christ.
Is it that hard to apologize??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2008, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
673 posts, read 2,920,352 times
Reputation: 325
Unfortunately he is not the only one to blame for the loss, we had several plays were we blew it. Favre got us where we are today....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2008, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Popeyes
762 posts, read 1,486,561 times
Reputation: 164
Al Harris was garbage too
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top