2nd Source Claims that they shipped HGH to Manning (pro, olympic, fan)

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by bluedevilz

The former allegation was based on a lie reported by Chris Mortensen which was never retracted or explained and further embellished with the million dollar toilet paper otherwise known as the Wells Report

The latter makes much more sense and is much more believable based on the time frame and what was going on in Mannings life at the time...

Two separate cases. This is not a Brady v. Manning issue.

[drishmael]

Originally Posted by McBain II

"First, you can't say he "knew" that they were shipping drugs to Ashley Manning as he has openly recanted his story."

Yeah, no, assuming that was a guess is absurd. And why did he recant? Oh, gee, I dunno, 'cause he makes his living providing banned substances to professional athletes (i.e, breaking the law)?!

"Second, even assuming he hadn't recanted his story, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that Sly (working at the Guyer Institute in 2013) could easily access medical records of treatment taking place at the clinic in 2011.

Critical thinking."

Please — pull your head out of the sand. We've got the Guyer Institute on camera confirming he worked there in 2011.

"Where is your proof that either or both of these men are lying?"

Both of their reputations are ****, for obvious reasons, which I'm more than willing to articulate.

"I don't know, nor do I care in the slightest.

I don't know anything about the Guyer Institute, their reputation or ability to treat patients...and again, I don't care. The reasons they Mannings have for visiting are their own."

Yeah, again, you're choosing to stick your head in the sand.

"Except there are a few problems here:

- Since HGH is not a controlled substance, it is rather easy to get an off label prescription for it even if such practice is technically illegal."

Okay, so either Manning or his wife had an illegal prescription. Should I assume that the wife's illegal prescription just happened to coincide with Peyton's potentially career-ending neck surgery? Again, absurd.

"- Even if you assume that Manning was going to acquire a prescription for off label use of HGH and that is the reason he choose the Guyer Institute, it is quite a stretch to assume that a man of Peyton's intelligence would not take care to cover his tracks better than having the prescription in his wife's name."

Why? Seems to be quite a common practice in the athletic community.

"I couldn't care less whether you believe him or not. You're completely inconsequential."

Ouch. Just as inconsequential as that single-season TD record is going to be if the apologists can't muster better arguments than the ones that appear above ...

[DOUBLE H]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

Two separate cases. This is not a Brady v. Manning issue.

Agreed. The Brady issue has nothing to do with the Al Jazeera article.

[ColoGuy]

I've had neck surgery. Now tell us about your real world experience.

HGH is absolutely very effective for healing damaged tissue. Do you think he took it to gain his monstrous size and strength?

He plays football because he loves the game and was better at it than 99.99999% of the rest.

"NFL rules" The NFL doesn't appear to give a flying **** about the concussion issue or the issue with referee's that are scorchingly terrible or many other important issues. The NFL is about money and power. You saying he should have trusted his life, his future, his health...to this cabal? Peyton is well known for being the brightest guy in the league, not the dumbest.

I'm not even saying he did it. But I think I may have with:
His health
His money
His future
His abilities

It is his body. It isn't like HGH was going to turn him into a lethal machine that sent running backs to the hospital. He was simply trying to recover from a devastating injury. An injury caused by life in the NFL. An injury caused by what the NFL freely condoned until recently.

So we have an NFL that forces players to compete in a game that is flat out extremely dangerous in so many ways. Then the NFL has the audacity to say, "Oh....by the way....we are not going to allow you to fully heal from your devastating injuries because...F*K You Anyway. We are the NFL. You are mobile meat that we employ."

Originally Posted by bluedevilz

Potential paralysis??

Get real dude, you have no idea what you are talking about, people have neck surgery every day and it either heals correctly or it doesn't but NONE of them are taking HGH to "improve the odds" since HGH isn't indicated for that purpose...

"The real world dilemma" is having neck surgery, still not regaining full feeling in your fingers and deciding to go back to playing football anyway (and thus risking further neck injury and complications)

THAT decision is all on Manning, IF he knowingly took HGH to "improve his odds" he also knowingly broke NFL rules to gain a competitive advantage....

[McBain II]

These two quotes clearly point out the absurdity of your positions. There is absolutely no proof (and the only allegation has been recanted) that Ashley Manning ever received HGH (legally or illegally) but you continue to act as if it is fact. It is quite clear that you are willing to accept as fact anything that fits your biased and preconceived notion.

Also, to my recollection, Sly never claimed that he provided the drugs to Manning, merely that he had knowledge of such practices happening. While I'm not certain how Indiana handles its licensing laws, I highly doubt an intern has the ability to write prescriptions there without the actual doctor signing off on such. There isn't anything to suggest that Sly's actions would have put him in the wrong legally, and if he had, it would have been exceedingly stupid to allow his name to be used in the report to begin with.

Please — pull your head out of the sand. We've got the Guyer Institute on camera confirming he worked there in 2011.

A claim which the owner says is incorrect, and has pointed out that Sly's hiring was coordinated through his school in 2013.

And again, I would point out how shockingly clear your bias is. Regardless of what the truth is, Sly's employment information could easily be verified by law enforcement or made public by Sly himself or even his school if he should allow it. Rather than sitting back and waiting for actual facts to come about, you accept as fact any claim that supports your narrative and flippantly dismiss that which doesn't.

Both of their reputations are ****, for obvious reasons, which I'm more than willing to articulate.

I didn't ask about reputations, I asked about proof. I'll take your redirection as an admission that you have no proof.

Ouch. Just as inconsequential as that single-season TD record is going to be if the apologists can't muster better arguments than the ones that appear above ...

This isn't the Olympics or college ball. Records don't get vacated in the NFL and to my knowledge the mechanisms do not even exist in the rulebooks to allow that to happen.

[MMS02760]

It's the NFL. Hard concrete evidence isn't required to convict players. All that is needed is circumstantial evidence and plausibility. How many games will he be suspended and when will it start?

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by MMS02760

It's the NFL. Hard concrete evidence isn't required to convict players. All that is needed is circumstantial evidence and plausibility. How many games will he be suspended and when will it start?

In this instance, though, what's interesting is that once the pushback started, Al-Jazeera's response was to say that it never accused Peyton Manning of taking HGH, rather it says that Ashley Manning allegedly received HGH from the Guyer Institute. My thought all along: BFD. Unless AJ can give us a smoking gun and directly accuse Peyton of using HGH, then this "investigative report" is pretty weak sauce.

[MMS02760]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

Unless AJ can give us a smoking gun and directly accuse Peyton of using HGH, then this "investigative report" is pretty weak sauce.

Its the NFL. It convicts players without a smoking gun and hard concrete evidence. Just ask Tom Brady. Circumstantial evidence and plausibility are all the NFL needs to judge, penalize, and assail a player's character.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by MMS02760

Its the NFL. It convicts players without a smoking gun and hard concrete evidence. Just ask Tom Brady. Circumstantial evidence and plausibility are all the NFL needs to judge, penalize, and assail a player's character.

I have almost zero interest in making this a another Brady v. Manning debate. They're not the same cases with the same background/history. Besides, I'd think the results from Bountygate and Deflategate may affect how the NFL approaches this matter. Furthermore, my comment was directed at AJ and not the NFL. Finally, these are not criminal matters, so of course the standard of proof is lower.

[ColoGuy]

I'd still be careful about the allegations. Consider the consequences:

Peyton Manning

Originally Posted by MMS02760

It's the NFL. Hard concrete evidence isn't required to convict players. All that is needed is circumstantial evidence and plausibility. How many games will he be suspended and when will it start?