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Old 09-26-2016, 05:27 PM
 
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It only hurts his legacy in the mind of people who have nothing better to do than go after his legacy.

 
Old 09-26-2016, 05:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger View Post
because Matt Cassel = Steve Young?

matt cassel couldn't even beat out Matt Leinart at USC and you know how well Matt Leinart worked out.

what has matt cassell ever done since? and we have 15.5 games of proof, not just one or two.
What is your argument here?

Matt Cassel was a bad QB and BB was able to get something out of him. That's another feather in Bill's cap.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 05:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
It only hurts his legacy in the mind of people who have nothing better to do than go after his legacy.
Come on it's a fair question if you want to be the GOAT. I'm not arguing he is not, but it doesn't strengthen his case. I emphatically thought he was before Jimmy G looked like Tom Brady 2.0 and the Pats got off to an emphatic 3-0 start. I think that is the main point. We can argue if it hurts his case or not. Again, gonna be a lot of nitpicking on all sides.

Clearly it's not ALL about championships and super bowl trophies, otherwise Marino wouldn't be considered nearly as great as he is.

Again, if you got Peyton and Brady and they are neck and neck and basically one is better by a nose, it's not too hard to think that maybe the thing that puts Brady over the top is that he has played with the GOAT coach.

Dungy might be a HOF coach, but I've personally always thought he was a bit over rated. Then again, I used to think the same of Belicheck too.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 05:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
Come on it's a fair question if you want to be the GOAT. I'm not arguing he is not, but it doesn't strengthen his case. I emphatically thought he was before Jimmy G looked like Tom Brady 2.0 and the Pats got off to an emphatic 3-0 start. I think that is the main point. We can argue if it hurts his case or not. Again, gonna be a lot of nitpicking on all sides.

Clearly it's not ALL about championships and super bowl trophies, otherwise Marino wouldn't be considered nearly as great as he is.

Again, if you got Peyton and Brady and they are neck and neck and basically one is better by a nose, it's not too hard to think that maybe the thing that puts Brady over the top is that he has played with the GOAT coach.

Dungy might be a HOF coach, but I've personally always thought he was a bit over rated. Then again, I used to think the same of Belicheck too.
Two different players. Peyton called his plays on the field, running his own offense. Brady followed instructions laid out for him. At the end of the day, regardless of coaching, the players have to execute on the field. Watching Brady all of these years, where he isn't in control like Manning was, yet with a playbook given to him (and a complex one at that), he directs his offense with precision. Other Pats QB's may succeed with W's, but if you watch the games, the game plan is different. With Brady it's a wide open and complex game. With Cassell and thus far Garoppolo and Brissett, the offense is dumbed down a bit.

Success can come in many flavors, and that's what makes Belichick a genius, knowing exactly how to play the cards dealt to him. But watching Brady play and direct and execute, only those looking for a debate will attempt to force the Pats success without Brady as if it lessens what Brady is. Sorry, but that's just media hogwash.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Mooresville, NC
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This helps BB's legacy much more than hurting TB. BB has done a helluva job these first few weeks.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
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The way I see it, he is a HOF player regardless, and those that want to make something out of these games without him will spin it to suit their story or viewpoint. I don't think it matters at all. He is a great QB, and Patriots winning 4 games without him, really says more about the coaching than Brady.

I heard rumblings about Packers, their system when Rodgers was out. Flynn came in and did o.k., however, outside of GB, not so hot.
 
Old 09-27-2016, 05:00 AM
 
4,988 posts, read 11,068,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
Come on it's a fair question if you want to be the GOAT. I'm not arguing he is not, but it doesn't strengthen his case. I emphatically thought he was before Jimmy G looked like Tom Brady 2.0 and the Pats got off to an emphatic 3-0 start. I think that is the main point. We can argue if it hurts his case or not. Again, gonna be a lot of nitpicking on all sides.

Clearly it's not ALL about championships and super bowl trophies, otherwise Marino wouldn't be considered nearly as great as he is.

Again, if you got Peyton and Brady and they are neck and neck and basically one is better by a nose, it's not too hard to think that maybe the thing that puts Brady over the top is that he has played with the GOAT coach.

Dungy might be a HOF coach, but I've personally always thought he was a bit over rated. Then again, I used to think the same of Belicheck too.
So then how does Trevor Semian's 3-0 start not hurt Peyton Manning's legacy???

Broncos offense certainly looks a lot more potent with him at the controls then it did with Manning...
 
Old 09-27-2016, 06:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
So then how does Trevor Semian's 3-0 start not hurt Peyton Manning's legacy???

Broncos offense certainly looks a lot more potent with him at the controls then it did with Manning...
It doesn't hurt because Peyton was already done at that point. I'm not arguing that Peyton was the main reason they won a Championship last year or that Peyton was any good last year. What Peyton did in his final year was irrelevant for the most part. Most all the greats had a bad final season. IMO, that is the way to go out too. Why go out if you still have game? Semian was good, but unless he actually plays like he did against the Bengals in the 13 other games remaining this year, I don't see him going 2012 or 2013 Peyton for the Broncos.
 
Old 09-27-2016, 02:02 PM
 
4,988 posts, read 11,068,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
It doesn't hurt because Peyton was already done at that point. I'm not arguing that Peyton was the main reason they won a Championship last year or that Peyton was any good last year. What Peyton did in his final year was irrelevant for the most part. Most all the greats had a bad final season. IMO, that is the way to go out too. Why go out if you still have game? Semian was good, but unless he actually plays like he did against the Bengals in the 13 other games remaining this year, I don't see him going 2012 or 2013 Peyton for the Broncos.
It doesn't matter if Peyton is no longer playing. If people want to seriously make an argument that Brady's legacy is diminished because the current Patriots team is currently 3-0 without him then the exact same argument can be made for Peyton because the Broncos are 3-0 without him too....

I'm not saying either argument makes sense because it doesn't.

But people can't make the argument regarding Brady's legacy and say " see Peyton was better" when his former team is doing the exact same thing without him that the Pats are doing without Brady. It goes to the same double standard that always seems to be in play when the 2 are discussed. Peyton can do no wrong in some folks eyes because he seems folksy and funny while Brady is the super intense "cheater". Peyton wasn't so squeaky clean at Tennessee according to at least one female trainer and the scope of the investigations between HGh being delivered to Mannings home and Brady "maybe" letting some air out of balls is laughable...

Not too mention if one reads the Brady v Manning book that came out last year it's pretty clear that in real life Brady is the more down to earth like able guy while Manning comes across as pretty much a d!ck
 
Old 09-27-2016, 02:32 PM
 
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It simply in my eyes comes down to one QB having your standard HOF coach, and the other QB having the GOAT coach. The mad genius coach. I can see an argument where that mad genius coach puts Brady over the top. Remove the coach and you have two equal QBs.
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