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Old 11-29-2016, 01:46 PM
 
1,281 posts, read 505,181 times
Reputation: 292

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryffendor View Post
He has "proven" he is above average? Proven based on what?
Brady, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Dalton, Luck, Marriotta, Carr, Smith, Rivers, Manning, Stafford, Winston, Brees, Newton, Wilson, Palmer....I think have a "proven" better track record than Cousins....OK, you want to say he is better than Marriotta and Winston, fine, I will give you that. That still puts him at #14....you wouldn't consider 14 out of 32 as "average"?
He took his team to the playoffs last season and looks like he will do it again

 
Old 11-29-2016, 01:51 PM
 
158 posts, read 49,673 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfceast View Post
He took his team to the playoffs last season and looks like he will do it again
Lets keep it real, this year is no shoe in yet they are going to the playoffs....Jay Schroeder took the Redskins to the playoffs as well, maybe he should be considered a Top 10 QB ....c'mon man, be serious!!!!
 
Old 11-29-2016, 02:09 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,859,729 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryffendor View Post
So you are the "what have you done for me likely fan"....why go on the season
His streak of great football is going on 22 straight games now. That's not just lately. He's also 1 for 1 in chances to lead his team to the playoffs and has a real shot of going 2 for 2 this season.

You are greatly disrespecting how good he has been this year and last year.
 
Old 11-29-2016, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,213 posts, read 2,833,476 times
Reputation: 4502
Last year, I'd put Cousins as the pound-for-pound 7th best quarterback in the league. We can open the debate to whatever qualifier you want but I'm taking virtually every metric, statistically and physically, into account, so I'm not saying that blindly. Note, him as 7th-best is for 2015 season only---not saying he's 7th-best based on overall career resume:

2015 top Quarterbacks
1. Carson Palmer
2. Tom Brady
3. Russell Wilson
4. Andy Dalton
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Drew Brees
7. Kirk Cousins

This year, I don't think it's a stretch to say he's played at a Top 5 level:

2016
1. Drew Brees
2. Matt Ryan
3. Dak Prescott
4. Kirk Cousins
5. Derek Carr
6. Tom Brady
7. Matt Stafford

There are still five games to play, a lot can change, but I'd feel comfortable saying these are the top seven quarterbacks in the game THIS year, so far. Cousins has been explosive at times, if he didn't **** the bed the first two weeks (Skins went 0-2 and he was primary cause for losses), everybody would put him in the MVP conversation...

The problem Cousins has is twofold:
1)he's gotta shed his reputation--a reputation he earned, definitely--as a poor decision maker, turnover-prone, game manager QB. And he's doing it, even more than people expected of him, because I don't think anyone thought he'd be this good. Even up to this season's first two weeks, he looked how he'd played the first half of last season and earlier. But this really good Cousins has always given glimpses that he was in there, I remember in '13 or '14 when he took it to Chip Kelly's Eagles for 460 yards and 4 touchdowns...

It's not that unexpected, when you think about it, but he has a poor reputation he has to get away from...

2)this 2016 season is a quarterback transition season, and many people are still either in disbelief or flat out denying that the "old guard" of quarterbacks is giving way to the the new era. Cousins is part of that new era, he's just 28, only his second real season as a full time starter. Brady/Ben/Rivers/Rodgers/Eli/Romo/Brees/Palmer/Smith/Cutler, all of these men are 33 years old-plus, all represent, and have represented, the last decade-plus of NFL football to varying degrees. The majority of these men are still performing at high levels, but I'm the 17 I've watched football, I'm seeing an unprecedented one season rise of the quarterbacks that will replace the ones I just named. The proof is out there every Sunday, and it's honestly stunning to watch...

Wentz/Prescott/Cousins/Newton/Winston/Luck/Wilson/Carr/Mariota, these young guns are, through collective magnificent play, taking over the league. No, they aren't all equal--but neither were/are the 10 I just named who've run the league the last decade. No, they won't all win Super Bowls--neither did all 10 of the players I just named. Cousins is in that new group pushing the old guys out, and his play is worthy of praise. There seems to be an overall denial that some of these new quarterbacks, while not as accomplished or experienced as the vets, are playing at levels equal or higher than most of the vets...

Cousins will get his due eventually, but he has both of these things working against him!
 
Old 11-29-2016, 02:24 PM
 
158 posts, read 49,673 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
His streak of great football is going on 22 straight games now. That's not just lately. He's also 1 for 1 in chances to lead his team to the playoffs and has a real shot of going 2 for 2 this season.

You are greatly disrespecting how good he has been this year and last year.


Bill, this is what we got to....because I am arguing he is not a Top 10 QB, that means I am "disrespecting" him?


He is a good QB, he is an average QB....you want to argue he is slightly "above average" ok, you can make that argument....he is NOT elite, he is NOT Top 10. so now we take it to the extreme because I say he isn't Top 10, I am disprespcting him?
 
Old 11-29-2016, 02:32 PM
 
1,281 posts, read 505,181 times
Reputation: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryffendor View Post
Bill, this is what we got to....because I am arguing he is not a Top 10 QB, that means I am "disrespecting" him?


He is a good QB, he is an average QB....you want to argue he is slightly "above average" ok, you can make that argument....he is NOT elite, he is NOT Top 10. so now we take it to the extreme because I say he isn't Top 10, I am disprespcting him?
So if the skins make the playoffs as a 5 seed and win one playoff game will he then be above average?
 
Old 11-29-2016, 02:34 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,859,729 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryffendor View Post
Bill, this is what we got to....because I am arguing he is not a Top 10 QB, that means I am "disrespecting" him?


He is a good QB, he is an average QB....you want to argue he is slightly "above average" ok, you can make that argument....he is NOT elite, he is NOT Top 10. so now we take it to the extreme because I say he isn't Top 10, I am disprespcting him?
I think so. If we are basing it purely on play from the last two seasons, I think there is a very strong case that he is top10. Murksiderock broke it down pretty well.
 
Old 11-29-2016, 02:34 PM
 
158 posts, read 49,673 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Last year, I'd put Cousins as the pound-for-pound 7th best quarterback in the league. We can open the debate to whatever qualifier you want but I'm taking virtually every metric, statistically and physically, into account, so I'm not saying that blindly. Note, him as 7th-best is for 2015 season only---not saying he's 7th-best based on overall career resume:

2015 top Quarterbacks
1. Carson Palmer
2. Tom Brady
3. Russell Wilson
4. Andy Dalton
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Drew Brees
7. Kirk Cousins

This year, I don't think it's a stretch to say he's played at a Top 5 level:

2016
1. Drew Brees
2. Matt Ryan
3. Dak Prescott
4. Kirk Cousins
5. Derek Carr
6. Tom Brady
7. Matt Stafford


I will take the "Common Sense" debate....I am looking at your lists....you are going to argue, that Kurt Cousins is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers?


So here is the argument I am proposing to you Murk....you have a team and can sign one QB....You have a choice of either Kurt Cousins or Aaron Rodgers....with a straight face you will take Cousins over Rodgers based on your "list"?....Seriously? Please, Stop it.
 
Old 11-29-2016, 02:45 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,859,729 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryffendor View Post
He has "proven" he is above average? Proven based on what?
Brady, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Dalton, Luck, Marriotta, Carr, Smith, Rivers, Manning, Stafford, Winston, Brees, Newton, Wilson, Palmer....I think have a "proven" better track record than Cousins....OK, you want to say he is better than Marriotta and Winston, fine, I will give you that. That still puts him at #14....you wouldn't consider 14 out of 32 as "average"?
From your list the bolded are the QBs I would for sure take over Cousins. There are five of them. I'm given Wilson the benefit of the doubt based on past play but he's had some serious issues. Not saying Cousins is definitely better than the rest of them, but he's definitely not worse either.

Throw in a couple more like Rodgers and Dak even and that brings the number up to seven which solidly puts Cousins as #8.
 
Old 11-29-2016, 02:48 PM
 
158 posts, read 49,673 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfceast View Post
So if the skins make the playoffs as a 5 seed and win one playoff game will he then be above average?
What do you consider "above average"? 32 teams in the league, so if he was #15, are we going to get that granular and call him "above average"? If that is your criteria, I already said you could make an argument for him....you use the playoffs as a measuring stick. Let me ask you this. When Dilfer won the SB with the Ravens, was he the "best QB" in the NFL? I mean he went to the playoffs and won it all, I think he won the SB MVP as well. Does that automatically elevate him into "elite" status or even top 10? Same for Brad Johnson with the Bucs....he won it all, was he "above average"?....How about you do it 5,6,7 yrs CONSISTENTLY....take your teams to the playoffs 5 out of those 7 years. Put up good stats, big wins....Then you can be in argument of Top 10 or whatever you want. as opposed to this "you are good today, you must be the best and if you don't think he is the best you are disrespecting him"....really?
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