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Old 12-05-2016, 01:47 PM
 
1,281 posts, read 507,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz View Post
Actually, you didn't provide any facts at all. You mentioned Minnesota, a game that the Cowboys BARELY won and only won it because of a shoddy call. Dallas BARELY beat them. And Minnesota's offense is terrible to begin with and hardly put up points with many teams, in general, the Vikings defense has been carrying that team. If AP was still around, and the Vikings had an O-line, Dallas would have easily lost that game.

Dallas has no pass pressure, and a weak secondary. It's been well known, and it's the number one thing analysts talk about if they want to be a serious Super Bowl contender. They put no pressure on the QB and their secondary has yet to get an interception all year long. Dallas' offense is carrying them now. Even Kirk Cousins shredded through their secondary a few weeks ago. But once they go against a good team like Seattle, I can't see Dallas winning if they don't fix those problem areas.
All that is true but the fact that they keep teams out of the endzone means the defense is not awful.


That's the point I'm trying to make

 
Old 12-05-2016, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,218 posts, read 2,852,502 times
Reputation: 4516
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Good points.. one thing that could hurt EVERY TEAM is injuries..
How many games is Earl Thomas gonna miss? Do we assume he is out for the remainder of the season?
If so, they can ill afford another loss in that secondary.. ?
They said Thomas is out indefinitely, but he isn't going on IR. Gut feeling? He'll be back in the playoffs, depending how deep they go. Still, a tremendous loss!

You're right, tons of teams have been obliterated by injuries this year. By that account, Dallas has had it fairly easy, in that injuries haven't affected their top 5 players. Seattle at this point has already played stretches without Bennett, Chancellor, Thomas, Prosise, Rawls, and they didn't play without Wilson but everybody knows he played through 3 injuries the first 8-9 weeks. To me, the fact they are 8-3-1 with the injuries they've had to top tier players just further underscores the fact that they are a mentally tough team. Any other team with that many 'impactful' injuries to key starters would be 3-8-1. Any other team would have found a way to lose to Arizona instead of tie, most other teams with these injuries could not have beaten New England without Bennett, Atlanta with no running game, etc...

I will say, Chancellor is the best safety in the NFL. He would get DPOY votes if he hadn't missed those four games. But Thomas is a huge loss. Thomas is the best pass coverage safety in the entire league (maybe right tied with Berry), and teams are going to take shots at the center of the field with him out, no doubt about it!

There will continue to be tough games ahead for Seattle, but there is more than enough evidence that they will find ways to keep winning even with him out...
 
Old 12-05-2016, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,683 posts, read 4,239,915 times
Reputation: 4636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz View Post
Actually, you didn't provide any facts at all. You mentioned Minnesota, a game that the Cowboys BARELY won and only won it because of a shoddy call. Dallas BARELY beat them. And Minnesota's offense is terrible to begin with and hardly put up points with many teams, in general, the Vikings defense has been carrying that team. If AP was still around, and the Vikings had an O-line, Dallas would have easily lost that game.

Dallas has no pass pressure, and a weak secondary. It's been well known, and it's the number one thing analysts talk about if they want to be a serious Super Bowl contender. They put no pressure on the QB and their secondary has yet to get an interception all year long. Dallas' offense is carrying them now. Even Kirk Cousins shredded through their secondary a few weeks ago. But once they go against a good team like Seattle, I can't see Dallas winning if they don't fix those problem areas.
I get what your saying.. The Cowboys defense doesn't SHUT any team DOWN.. They give up a lot of plays and yards.. but few points.. Here are SOME FACTS for you. The Cowboys defense is ranked 5th in the league giving up 19 points per game.. Those are FACTs, numbers backed up by 12 weeks of play so its not a fluke.. just a fact.

Cowboy fans are familiar with BAD defenses.. all we have to do is go back a few years (2013) and we remember one of the worst defenses in NFL history. A defense that game up 51, 49 and 45 points.... this defense is NO WHERE close to that bad... Would I prefer a team that gives up 3 points a game, SURE.. but we got we got.

19 points a game.. those are the FACTS!
 
Old 12-05-2016, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
2,868 posts, read 1,459,883 times
Reputation: 2355
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfceast View Post
All that is true but the fact that they keep teams out of the endzone means the defense is not awful.


That's the point I'm trying to make
I guess I take back my original statement. It's an "ok" defense at best, but it's definitely not a great one, or one to win playoffs.
 
Old 12-05-2016, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
2,868 posts, read 1,459,883 times
Reputation: 2355
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
I get what your saying.. The Cowboys defense doesn't SHUT any team DOWN.. They give up a lot of plays and yards.. but few points.. Here are SOME FACTS for you. The Cowboys defense is ranked 5th in the league giving up 19 points per game.. Those are FACTs, numbers backed up by 12 weeks of play so its not a fluke.. just a fact.

Cowboy fans are familiar with BAD defenses.. all we have to do is go back a few years (2013) and we remember one of the worst defenses in NFL history. A defense that game up 51, 49 and 45 points.... this defense is NO WHERE close to that bad... Would I prefer a team that gives up 3 points a game, SURE.. but we got we got.

19 points a game.. those are the FACTS!
I don't understand the THOSE ARE FACTS thing you're trying to make. I never even disputed that.
 
Old 12-05-2016, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,683 posts, read 4,239,915 times
Reputation: 4636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz View Post
I don't understand the THOSE ARE FACTS thing you're trying to make. I never even disputed that.
Point taken. You were looking for FACTs concerning Minnesota which i don't have.. I suppose I could dig something up but not worth it.. but i did have FACTs proving the Cowboys defense was better than MOST.. certainly not bad at all.. i suppose if you want to win a 3-0, this Cowboys defense wont do it for you.
 
Old 12-05-2016, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,683 posts, read 4,239,915 times
Reputation: 4636
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz View Post
I guess I take back my original statement. It's an "ok" defense at best, but it's definitely not a great one, or one to win playoffs.
I will say this.. I would Be VERY SURPRISED if the Cowboys advance to the Super Bowl.. not because of their defense but because of their untested rookies on offense. At the same time, i will be VERY DISAPPOINTED if they don't at least WIN a playoff game.. and if they clinch the div and a 1st round by, that means they have to play in the NFC Championship game.. If they do that and get their doors blown off 50-0.. i will be extremely disappointed but only for a second.. then i will be elated at what the future might hold.
 
Old 12-05-2016, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
2,868 posts, read 1,459,883 times
Reputation: 2355
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
I will say this.. I would Be VERY SURPRISED if the Cowboys advance to the Super Bowl.. not because of their defense but because of their untested rookies on offense. At the same time, i will be VERY DISAPPOINTED if they don't at least WIN a playoff game.. and if they clinch the div and a 1st round by, that means they have to play in the NFC Championship game.. If they do that and get their doors blown off 50-0.. i will be extremely disappointed but only for a second.. then i will be elated at what the future might hold.
I'm a Skins fan, but either way, hats off to Dak and Zeke for changing the mentality of this team. They went from laughing stock in the NFL to a legitmate Super Bowl contender.

I agree, I have a feeling that the rookie-ness will show in the playoffs, but the fact that we're even discussing this now says a lot about the future of the Cowboys.
 
Old 12-05-2016, 03:21 PM
 
4,990 posts, read 11,078,592 times
Reputation: 11877
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Good points.. one thing that could hurt EVERY TEAM is injuries..
How many games is Earl Thomas gonna miss? Do we assume he is out for the remainder of the season?
If so, they can ill afford another loss in that secondary.. ?
Earl Thomas is almost certainly gone for the season

Pete Carroll said "6 weeks"....Pete should stick to coaching and not commenting on injuries

A fractured tibia is more like a 3 month injury and will likely require surgery

Little to no chance Earl Thomas plays again this season...
 
Old 12-05-2016, 03:50 PM
 
158 posts, read 49,811 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz View Post
I guess I take back my original statement. It's an "ok" defense at best, but it's definitely not a great one, or one to win playoffs.
Giants won a SB with I believe the 25th ranked defense.
In the NFC, other than Seattle, is there really a team with a dominant defense? Minnesota has a good defense, but no lock for the playoffs. In the AFC, you got Denver. You want to argue KC has a good defense....that's about it
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