U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-26-2016, 12:04 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,862,633 times
Reputation: 2353

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Boy, are you wrong about this....

The Redskins pile up tons of yardage and move the ball and still have one of the worst red zone offenses in the NFL. Seattle is a more efficient scoring team, but screw that even. That statement you made is outdated and shows a lack of information on the Seattle Seahawks offense as currently constructed, especially since their defense supposedly is worse...

@nfceast, I don't know what Seattle team you're talking about is average on the road. Week 2 at the Rams, Week 4 at the Jets, the epic Week 6 at the Cardinals (the two best defensive performances of 2016 no question), two weeks ago at the Patriots...about the only claim you have is the Saints game, but that is the Number One offense in the NFL as of right now, and Seahawks defense still played valiantly. No help from the offense wore them out at the end...

And this is how you know people on this board regurgitate old narratives and aren't learned on current events. This is why I also said the "demise" of the Seahawks defense has been terribly overstated. Is there really another defense you want on the field in the final minutes? Some might say Denver, and they have a case. That defense is deep, well-coached, a who's who of All-Pros, insanely talented, and probably best of all, they love the biggest moments. They're not afraid of it. They want to be responsible for protecting the lead with 2 minutes left, or swinging the game on a turnover, or winning the game at the goal line. I'm sorry, you'll have to excuse me--I didn't say Dallas "has no shot", but yeah, I'll take my chances with Seattle Seahawks defense over the Dallas Cowboys offense. Today and any day until that defense really starts to decline...

They've slipped from an all-time historic level of dominance, and yet they are still dominant. The games show you the holes that the stats don't fully explain. That defense is still big time and as they showed at Arizona and at New England, they are STILL capable of putting on a clinic or sealing the victory when they need the win the most...
Seattle lost something like 9-6 to the rams. Scored what 12 points at home against the Dolphins? Wilson went something like four or five games without throwing a TD pass at one point. The Seattle offense has been streaky I would say in terms of scoring. I'm not learned on current events? Okay. I don't know everything. But I'm not clueless either. I do currently hold a five or so point lead in pick em this year so I think I must be in touch with some of what is going on this year.

 
Old 11-26-2016, 12:27 PM
 
2,286 posts, read 1,513,671 times
Reputation: 1143
They had a few blowout wins, and a silly 39-36 win. I'm sure some of those points in those blowouts were kick returns or pick-6's. Those 3 were part of the 5 straight games I mentioned in which they scored 0 touchdowns (still managed to win 2).
 
Old 11-26-2016, 12:51 PM
 
158 posts, read 49,747 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfceast View Post
Eagles defense of the early 90's always seemed to play poorly in the playoffs.
From 1988-1995 they were 1-4 in playoff games. Yet outside of 1 loss to Dallas, they never gave up more than 20 points. Yet they lost 3 of those 4 games
 
Old 11-26-2016, 01:04 PM
 
1,281 posts, read 506,131 times
Reputation: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryffendor View Post
From 1988-1995 they were 1-4 in playoff games. Yet outside of 1 loss to Dallas, they never gave up more than 20 points. Yet they lost 3 of those 4 games

Wonder what changed in the playoffs because that same redskins team who they beat on monday night during the regular season at the Vet came back to the vet and was able to score on the same defense.
 
Old 11-26-2016, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,842,150 times
Reputation: 4511
Quote:
Originally Posted by rarog View Post
When it takes your team (team, not fans) 5 minutes after winning the super bowl to go on about how you're the greatest defense of all time, it's hard to take them seriously as even a top 5, sorry. This includes Seattle 2013 and Denver 2015. Maybe 10 years from now we can look back and make a more objective call on this, like mco said.
That's a product of the era I'm which we live, with so many technologies available to watch and discuss sports. Had these technologies been around in the '70s, the public discussion would have had the same effect, so I'm not sure why that should disqualify defenses who were actually great...

@mco

I appreciate that you've at least admitted you have an era bias. Nobody else here will admit it and this isn't the first discussion we've had through the years on this board where there is evident era bias...

I'm 27, I started watching football in the '99 season, and I played throughout middle and high school. Unfortunately, my talents weren't next-level good, but I was a corner and I've always been defensive minded. I watch games from a defensive perspective, I guess it's a natural inclination from my long ago playing days. I am a voracious student of NFL history, so I am learned on the defenses of yesteryear. For the record, I don't even think the '13 Seahawks was the best defense I ever saw (I'd say the '15 Broncos were better than they and the '00 Ravens)...

But I think you and some others hit on a point that can't be ignored, which is the handicap that defense of this era have to play in. The '15 Broncos have to be on a very short list for greatest all-time defenses, for what they accomplished in a league that skews EVERYTHING in the offense's favor....the '10s Seahawks will go down as one of the greatest runs of defense ever, right up there with the Steel Curtain and the '70s Vikings, etc. In a league that scores more points than ever, they've allowed the fewest points for four seasons straight and are in the driver's seat to do it a fifth year. The '70s Steelers never accomplished such a feat, only the '50s Browns did, but in a 12-14 team league. This feat is remarkable and the Seattle Seahawks organization from top down deserves all the credit in the world for that...

Not to mention, in this "Legion of Boom" era (since 2012), the list of high octane offenses, quality QB's or future HOF QB's theyes have dumped in the postseason:

2012: picked off Matt Ryan twice and held him under 300 yards passing in his career year '12 season, losing by two...
2013: held Drew freaking Brees to a 56% completion percentage and a 56 passer rating, dominated a prime Jimmy Graham and explosive Saints offense....nothing needs to be said about the Super Bowl, that speaks for itself. Record-setting Manning and Broncos offense...
2014: held MVP Aaron Rodgers to less than 200 yards passing, picked him twice, 56 passer rating...

Obviously they didn't play their best versus Carolina last year and they lost the Super Bowl, but they didn't play badly in that game...

Again, they've played in an era of Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers and at different periods beat all four. I understand its hard to guage relative dominance compared to older eras,but for the time period in which they play, that defense is most certainly dominant, have flexed those muscles not only throughout this run since 2012 but this year in 2016, and would probably "look" scarier if they got to play in the '80s or prior, with the rules of those days!
 
Old 11-26-2016, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,842,150 times
Reputation: 4511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
Seattle lost something like 9-6 to the rams. Scored what 12 points at home against the Dolphins? Wilson went something like four or five games without throwing a TD pass at one point. The Seattle offense has been streaky I would say in terms of scoring. I'm not learned on current events? Okay. I don't know everything. But I'm not clueless either. I do currently hold a five or so point lead in pick em this year so I think I must be in touch with some of what is going on this year.
.....missing their top two runners, disastrous offensive line, quarterback played hurt. Let's not pretend there weren't mitigating factors in those games, particularly the fact that Wilson being hurt and the offensive line being shaky have been that way since Opening Kickoff. Why would it be okay to ponder circumstance with a different team but not with Seattle?

And still, all of that said, playing at their worst, Seattle only lost two games. When I was speaking "as currently constructed", the QB finally getting stronger, the OL getting stronger, the breakout of Prosise and the return of Rawls from injury--"as currently constructed". Three weeks in a row now, the offense has started to find its groove. It holds reason that sans Wilson's early injuries and a better OL group to start the year, they may not have even lost a game...
 
Old 11-26-2016, 01:28 PM
 
2,286 posts, read 1,513,671 times
Reputation: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
That's a product of the era I'm which we live, with so many technologies available to watch and discuss sports. Had these technologies been around in the '70s, the public discussion would have had the same effect, so I'm not sure why that should disqualify defenses who were actually great...
That may be right, I don't know. It's not so much discounting them, just hard to respect people acting childish like that. Regardless, as I said, 10 years down the road, maybe I'll think of one or both of those defenses as historic greats.
 
Old 11-26-2016, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
11,724 posts, read 11,561,574 times
Reputation: 12484
I'm not going to comment, just read, sit here, smile, and chalk it up to youth!
 
Old 11-27-2016, 05:09 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,862,633 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
.....missing their top two runners, disastrous offensive line, quarterback played hurt. Let's not pretend there weren't mitigating factors in those games, particularly the fact that Wilson being hurt and the offensive line being shaky have been that way since Opening Kickoff. Why would it be okay to ponder circumstance with a different team but not with Seattle?

And still, all of that said, playing at their worst, Seattle only lost two games. When I was speaking "as currently constructed", the QB finally getting stronger, the OL getting stronger, the breakout of Prosise and the return of Rawls from injury--"as currently constructed". Three weeks in a row now, the offense has started to find its groove. It holds reason that sans Wilson's early injuries and a better OL group to start the year, they may not have even lost a game...
Murksiderock- Still feel Seattle's offense is rolling? As I said before, Dallas is likely to face a tougher defense against Seattle compared to the Skins, but the Dallas defense is more likely to get more of a break compared to having to face Washington.
 
Old 11-27-2016, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,842,150 times
Reputation: 4511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
Murksiderock- Still feel Seattle's offense is rolling? As I said before, Dallas is likely to face a tougher defense against Seattle compared to the Skins, but the Dallas defense is more likely to get more of a break compared to having to face Washington.
No, I dont. It's one of those mystifying things where Seattle's line looked like they were gelling and playing well the last three games, but they regressed big time today. Tampa's defense came into this week ranked 26th in total defense. They're not that good; Seattle just has the worst OL in football. Wilson was sacked 6 times and knocked down 10 times!

Obviously Seattle's offense isn't as lethal as Washington's. No argument there. Scoring isn't Seattle's problem, though--protecting the quarterback and run blocking is. I maintain that if the line plays well, Seattle can score with Dallas. Its not like the Seahawks are devoid of talent at the skill positions--they have a great QB, a WR1, a great TE with good complementary receivers, and a nice 1-2 running back punch. THEY CAN'T PROTECT THE QUARTERBACK OR CONTROL THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. Everybody's offense would suffer behind such a porous line.

I will add that Seattle was missing three defensive starters and still played well after the first quarter. Seattle's defense makes up the difference because Dallas' defense isn't very good (though they've overachieved). The Seahawks D kept them in this game and gave them a chance to win. Two fourth quarter takeaways and excellent second half defense against Tampa's #11 offense...

But yes, this is why the Cowboys are the better team right now and have earned the right to be favored against anyone the rest of the way. None of the Cowboys issues are as glaring as Seattle's atrocious o-line. It's awful. And if they allow the type of pressure they have today, the Seahawks will have a very short postseason...I still favor Seattle over Dallas, though. I'm not budging on that, lol! They'd have to have an epic meltdown for me to sway towards Dallas in that game--but as of right now, and 95% of this season, Dallas is the better team...

Let me vent about one more thing: Carroll lost this game for Seattle when he didn't go for a 4th&1 in the 3rd. The offense had struggled the entire game, you knew you couldn't run it, had trouble keeping Wilson clean, and on a drive that Seattle gained two first downs and ended with a 4th and 1 around their own 40 or so, he decided to punt. Why? That was the best drive they'd had all night. All you needed was 10 points. I'd venture with the thought that Seattle had a little momentum at that point, and if you convert that 4th and 1 and drive into field goal range, it's 14-8 late in the 3rd. The pressure would then be on a young Tampa team to protect the lead, yet outside the first two drives if the game when they went up 14-0, they were pretty much dominated by Seattle's defense...

Stupidity. I call Petey the second-best coach in the league and he always creates a cause to second guess him!

Lastly, Kam Chancellor won't win DPOY because he missed four games, but man is he a difference maker. One of my favorite players, Collins may be having the best year this year but Chancellor is a 2x All-Pro and probably is still the single most dominant safety in the game. He is elite in coverage, against the run, reads offenses like he's on offense, that guy is fun to watch and since he's been back you see the impact he has...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top