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Old 11-30-2016, 04:33 PM
 
32,439 posts, read 26,308,370 times
Reputation: 19041

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
My point is, the Dallas offense is built around that offensive line and Ezekiel Elliot. Dak is more of a compliment to that. Take my QB for example, Kirk Cousins. Kirk IS the Redskins offense. The offense flows through Kirk Cousins. Same for Brees, Rivers, etc. Gunslingers.

Question to everybody: Seeing as how the Cowboys are 1st in rushing attempts and dead last in pass attempts in the NFL, you could probably swap out Dak Prescott with any of the the top 12-13 QBs in the NFL and Dallas is still 10-1. Agree or disagree?

Dak is very good at his job. Mostly he just hands it off to Elliot. But when Dak is asked to throw, he makes safe, smart, accurate throws. I know pass attempts aren't everything, but it supports my point that, when you're 33rd in pass attempts per game, not a whole lot is asked of you as a QB compared to guys like Brees & Cousins who lead the NFL in pass attempts.

A QB with the fewest pass attempts in the NFL just can't be in the MVP conversation. I'm sorry.
i think you are overlooking, perhaps because of your own blind hate for the cowboys, is that prescott is doing not only the big things, but all the little things that need to be done to make the team successful. and while brady and the others are taking the teams on their shoulders, they are also being the star of the team rather than real team players. prescott could be a tom brady if he wanted, but then he would also be forcing passes into places where they shouldnt be forced, and he would have a lot more interceptions to date.

realize also that passing is not the only thing used to decide MVP status. making smart decisions is also necessary, which prescott has done very well this year. instead of taking sacks or throwing interceptions, prescott runs for net gains in yardage. or throws the ball away.

in the end i think you are far too focused on one aspect of the quarterbacks job.

 
Old 11-30-2016, 04:58 PM
 
4,979 posts, read 11,044,361 times
Reputation: 11808
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
The Redskins have quite a large fan base, so negative to them being "a regional team". I lived in Albany, NY, which is where the Giants hold their training camp and cleat Giants counter, and I knew quite a few Redskins fans. I even knew a gut who was a Redskins season ticket holders, born and raised New Yorker. There is a New York Redskins fan chapter in both NY State and New York City...

Washington, DC is the biggest media city in the entire nation outside of NY and LA. The Redskins get plenty of press...

The nly team who travels well above the others is the Cowboys. The Redskins and Giants are about equal in popularity, the Giants have just been more successful recently. Philly would have the smallest fan base. But I'll speak for all Redskins and say I've never felt a little brother pull with the Boys...

Just clarifying some of your stated misconceptions!
Washington DC is a top 10 Media City but it isn't top 3...Chicago, Philly, Dallas all above DC along with Boston on some polls.

Not sure why you would think Philly has the smallest fan base when the population of Philly is double that of DC and the population of Metro Philly is more than double Northern Virginias'.....Philly fans just more rabid than Redskin fans in general

In 2016 DMA Rankings, D.C. Moves Up One Spot, Tampa Up Two | TVSpy

I assume you are talking just NFC East but even so Philly would have the 2nd or 3rd ranked fan base in terms of size, popularity, etc....Redskins are last in the East by any poll or metric you choose

DC has one of the worst in terms of unsold tickets for home games, well below Giants and Eagles...

If you are ranking NFC East fan bases its Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, Redskins


New study ranks the NFL's best and worst fan bases; where's yours?
 
Old 11-30-2016, 05:35 PM
 
1,281 posts, read 504,413 times
Reputation: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
I disagree... I think the REason the Cowboys are 10-1 is because DAK doesn't try to do too much and most of your top 12-13 QBs would be doing more. the coaches would be taking more chances.. If Romo were starting instead of Dak, the Cowboys would be 7-4 or 8-3 at best.. That's the beauty of Dak but its also what will ultimately disqualify him from MVP consideration, not how many pass attempts he has, nobody pays attention to that.. as long as he is passing the ball 20-30 times a game and completing 65% then that is a MOOT point..

Personally, i don't think there is QB in the league right now outside of Tom Brady that could have the Cowboys at 10-1 besides Dak. Not because they are not good enough but because they are not unselfish enough. Most top QBs today certainly would enjoy a RB that gets 150 yards but as soon as their stats started to suffer, most would start audibling out of those dumb 3 yard running plays to more exotic stuff and lets be honest, most Coaches would WANT them to audible as well..

There is no doubt that Dak was a game manager the 1st month of the season and as the season has progressed he has been asked to do more and more and he has been asked to make more plays and he passed EVERY test so far.. Eventually, he is going to single handedly win a game for the Cowboys because either Zeke is out hurt or some stout defense is gonna truly stack the box and force the Cowboys to beat them with Daks arm.. Until he does that, there will be doubters..

Obviously Dak would not be as productive without Zeke and the opposite is true, couple that with the fact they are both ROOKIEs and that alone disqualifies both as MVP candidates in many pundits eyes.. i'm good with that because as nice as an MVP would feel, it doesn't hold a candle to the Lombardi.
If he can play well enough to lead the cowboys to a 18-1 record then I can care less about a MVP.
 
Old 11-30-2016, 06:59 PM
 
32,439 posts, read 26,308,370 times
Reputation: 19041
Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
Question to everybody: Seeing as how the Cowboys are 1st in rushing attempts and dead last in pass attempts in the NFL, you could probably swap out Dak Prescott with any of the the top 12-13 QBs in the NFL and Dallas is still 10-1. Agree or disagree?
you know, i went back and looked up the current stats for prescott, and compared them to brady for teh 2016 season, and found something interesting.

in 7 games brady has attempted 256 passes or about 36 per game. in 11 games prescott has attempted 340 passes or about 31 per game.

in completions brady has 175, prescott 231.

in yards brady 2201, prescott 2835

qbr brady 85.6, prescott 87.0

overall rating brady 116.7, prescott 108.6

no rushing stats listed for brady, but prescott has 41 carries for 180 yards and 5 touchdowns

passing touchdowns brady 18 with 1 interception, prescott 18 with 2 interceptions

Tom Brady Stats, News, Videos, Highlights, Pictures, Bio - New England Patriots - ESPN

Dak Prescott Stats - Dallas Cowboys - ESPN

as you can see the numbers are pretty similar, especially since the cowboys do run a bit more than they pass, about 51% of their plays are running plays;

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

in all i think dak deserves more credit than you might believe.
 
Old 11-30-2016, 07:14 PM
 
4,979 posts, read 11,044,361 times
Reputation: 11808
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you know, i went back and looked up the current stats for prescott, and compared them to brady for teh 2016 season, and found something interesting.

in 7 games brady has attempted 256 passes or about 36 per game. in 11 games prescott has attempted 340 passes or about 31 per game.

in completions brady has 175, prescott 231.

in yards brady 2201, prescott 2835

qbr brady 85.6, prescott 87.0

overall rating brady 116.7, prescott 108.6

no rushing stats listed for brady, but prescott has 41 carries for 180 yards and 5 touchdowns

passing touchdowns brady 18 with 1 interception, prescott 18 with 2 interceptions

Tom Brady Stats, News, Videos, Highlights, Pictures, Bio - New England Patriots - ESPN

Dak Prescott Stats - Dallas Cowboys - ESPN

as you can see the numbers are pretty similar, especially since the cowboys do run a bit more than they pass, about 51% of their plays are running plays;

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

in all i think dak deserves more credit than you might believe.
And Brady has played four fewer games as you pointed out how does that put dak in a better light?
 
Old 11-30-2016, 07:14 PM
 
1,281 posts, read 504,413 times
Reputation: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you know, i went back and looked up the current stats for prescott, and compared them to brady for teh 2016 season, and found something interesting.

in 7 games brady has attempted 256 passes or about 36 per game. in 11 games prescott has attempted 340 passes or about 31 per game.

in completions brady has 175, prescott 231.

in yards brady 2201, prescott 2835

qbr brady 85.6, prescott 87.0

overall rating brady 116.7, prescott 108.6

no rushing stats listed for brady, but prescott has 41 carries for 180 yards and 5 touchdowns

passing touchdowns brady 18 with 1 interception, prescott 18 with 2 interceptions

Tom Brady Stats, News, Videos, Highlights, Pictures, Bio - New England Patriots - ESPN

Dak Prescott Stats - Dallas Cowboys - ESPN

as you can see the numbers are pretty similar, especially since the cowboys do run a bit more than they pass, about 51% of their plays are running plays;

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

in all i think dak deserves more credit than you might believe.


Anyone with 20/20 vision can see Dak is not a game manager which is why I don't even respond when someone says it.
 
Old 11-30-2016, 07:48 PM
 
32,439 posts, read 26,308,370 times
Reputation: 19041
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
And Brady has played four fewer games as you pointed out how does that put dak in a better light?
the stats are similar to what brady is putting out. average them out on a per game basis, and again you will find them similar.
 
Old 11-30-2016, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,209 posts, read 2,825,676 times
Reputation: 4497
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Washington DC is a top 10 Media City but it isn't top 3...Chicago, Philly, Dallas all above DC along with Boston on some polls.

Not sure why you would think Philly has the smallest fan base when the population of Philly is double that of DC and the population of Metro Philly is more than double Northern Virginias'.....Philly fans just more rabid than Redskin fans in general

In 2016 DMA Rankings, D.C. Moves Up One Spot, Tampa Up Two | TVSpy

I assume you are talking just NFC East but even so Philly would have the 2nd or 3rd ranked fan base in terms of size, popularity, etc....Redskins are last in the East by any poll or metric you choose

DC has one of the worst in terms of unsold tickets for home games, well below Giants and Eagles...

If you are ranking NFC East fan bases its Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, Redskins


New study ranks the NFL's best and worst fan bases; where's yours?
This is gonna briefly detour us from the realm of football, but just to clarify:

You're speaking about television market size, in which case, you're not wrong, DC is the 7th-largest. However, TV market size isnt the sole indicator of media representation...

I'm speaking about media influence, in which case, there certainly are NOT six cities with a more influential media base than DC. The Washington Post is internationally renowned and is more decorated/more highly esteemed than virtually every paper in this nation besides the NY Times. And when I say "decorated" and "esteemed", I'm going beyond circulation into international reputation, awards (Pulitzers and such), reputed journalists/ism, etc. NPR, National Geographic, Travel Channel, Radio One, XM Satellite Radio, Discovery Channel, are all widely viewed media outlets based in Washington, DC...

My point about media is a response to a false assertion that there is no media coverage of the Redskins outside of Washington Metro. Now about fan base:

Speaking anecdotally, I know the Eagles don't have a larger fan base than the Washington Redskins. Maybe a more passionate fan base, I won't debate that. But not larger. The Redskins have a fan base that spans pretty much the entire East Coast from Upstate New York to South Georgia. Obviously, we understand that the base is strongest in Metro DC, and the spawn of the Falcons, Ravens, and Panthers ate into the Redskins base, but in ALL of those states, there are Redskins chapters, which tells you there's Redskins reach there. I also lived in Hall County (Metro Atlanta), maybe a half-mile from the Falcons headquarters on Falcon Parkway/Thurman Tanner--and I knew Redskins fans in the Atlanta area...

Lastly, Philly and DC have a metro population both of over 6 million. That does not equate to a larger fan base based on population when they are virtually the same size. Again, to be absolutely clear, the Redskins probably have the least passionate fan base in the East....but in size and reach of the fan base, the Redskins are only assuredly behind Dallas, certainly ahead of Philadelphia, and arguably the same relative size and influence as the Giants. The Redskins for decades were the only team in the Southeast. Even as other franchises were born, there are loyalties to the Redskins that have been passed through the generations in other states. As a former resident of Georgia, the Carolinas, and New York State, I can state this as an absolute fact. Plenty of Redskins fans in all of those states. More Cowboys fans, definitely, roughly even to the Giants, but the Eagles would come in dead last...
 
Old 11-30-2016, 09:26 PM
 
1,578 posts, read 982,048 times
Reputation: 2965
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
The Redskins for decades were the only team in the Southeast. Even as other franchises were born, there are loyalties to the Redskins that have been passed through the generations in other states
Murk, very good post. It's a sidebar from the subject of the original post, but good points. Northeastern Carolina still gets media from Hampton Roads, VA (Norfolk, etc).. which is Redskins' media market.. so there are still people coming up on Skins' coverage. And like u stated, they have dads & grand-dads who are lifelong Redskin fans. Redskins have a lot of reach into MD, VA, NC.

To your point about Washington being a long-time, sole representative of the NFL in the SouthEast, (pre-Panthers, Falcons, etc).. I heard that Redskins' fight song lyric, 'Fight for old DC.', once went 'Fight for old Dixie'.. but I've never heard that confirmed. Anyone know if that was the original lyric (?)
 
Old 12-01-2016, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,349 posts, read 5,563,395 times
Reputation: 9446
So you think Eli or Cousins, behind that Dallas o-line and with Elliot....that they wouldn't be as successful as Dak? I don't get the logic. Cousins and Eli would both have to scale back their production to be on Dak's level, becaue they both are asked to throw it a lot more. Dak doesn't throw very much, because his offensive coordinator doens't ask him to.

I get that some people find the term "game manager" as a negative. So without calling him a game manager, my point still stands that, when comparing the workloads of Cousins and Eli to Dak, they're WAY above what Dak is doing.
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