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Old 11-26-2016, 10:18 AM
 
1,281 posts, read 506,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAM88 View Post
You have to have a defense that is at least halfway decent. You cannot expect a QB to put up over 30 points game in and game out.

However, if you have a great defense, you can completely offset a poor playing QB. Denver is example #1 of this fact. Peyton Manning was flat out awful last year, fortunately for Denver their defense was fantastic and that is the single reason they won the Super Bowl.
Maybe not 30 pts but the QB is not playing for free and is expected to lead the team into scoring position.
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Old 11-26-2016, 10:24 AM
 
2,366 posts, read 2,132,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfceast View Post
I understand a QB can't control receivers dropping passes but I don't believe that excuse can be used for any QB for multiple seasons in a row.
Phillip Rivers does his part. The reality is that the Chargers aren't good enough.
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Old 11-26-2016, 04:12 PM
 
4,988 posts, read 11,072,325 times
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If a NFL QB never has success in the playoffs or "can't win the big one" it doesn't necessarily put their "talent" into question but it does affect their legacy.

I've been watching football since the early 70's and the best examples come from the early 80's....

No one questions Dan Marino's or Jim Kelly's "talent", its why they are both in the HOF and both first ballot HOFers

But the lack of a ring is why those same 2 supremely talented QB's are never mentioned in the GOAT conversation....lack of rings do matter for QB's....fairly or unfairly...

I've also seen people say that QB's aren't credited with wins, but they are....Tom Brady is about to tie Peyton Manning for the most "wins" by an NFL QB at 200. No one credits WR's, RB's or DLineman with "wins" but QB wins are recorded.

Baseball is a team sport as well, even if a pitcher throws a perfect game he can't "win" unless his offense produces at least one run yet pitchers are credited with wins and losses.

Playoff success does matter for legacy which is why the GOAT conversation centers around Brady and Montana, the 2 most clutch playoff QB's in NFL history.

I watched Marino play live though out his prime, I definitely think he was more talented than Brady but Brady has been more clutch when it mattered most.

I know this discussion was brought up concerning Romo....Romo has been a very "good" QB for a long time, but I think many people romanticize his place in history....he was never a top 5 QB, never had playoff success...was it all his fault? Of course not....but he didn't elevate his game or his team when it mattered.

Personally I would put Romo on par with Drew Bledsoe, both in the Hall of Very Good, but not Hall of Fame....

Romo owns most Cowboy passing records but would any Cowboy fan take him over Aikman or Staubach??

I would question the sanity of any fan that did...
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Old 11-26-2016, 04:49 PM
 
9,437 posts, read 7,119,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfceast View Post
Since Andy Dalton is 0-4 as a playoff starter and may miss the playoffs for 2 seasons in a row it maybe time for the team to make a change.

In 4 playoffs starts he has only 1 TD passes and 6 Int's.
Good luck getting to the playoffs with AJ McCarron as the starting QB. Or are you saying go out and spend money on the free agent market.. which takes away your ability to sign other parts of the team..
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Old 11-26-2016, 04:53 PM
 
1,281 posts, read 506,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Good luck getting to the playoffs with AJ McCarron as the starting QB. Or are you saying go out and spend money on the free agent market.. which takes away your ability to sign other parts of the team..
Yeah you have to address the QB situation because when the starting QB is 0-4 as a starter in the playoffs and 6 int's and only 1 td pass it's time for a change at QB.
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Old 11-26-2016, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,637 posts, read 4,232,451 times
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QB wins, although cool.. are unofficial stats.. It does point out the obvious importance of a QB.. no one disputes a QBs value but i have seen more teams win Super Bowls with average QBs than I have seen Elite QBs win a Super Bowl with average teams...
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,847,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyxius View Post
Phillip Rivers does his part. The reality is that the Chargers aren't good enough.
Phillip Rivers is overrated. He had a good run and probably is a hall of famer, but he hasn't been elite since 2013, and yet we (fans, "experts") still romanticize him as if he's been year-in, year-out dominant like Brees or Brady or Manning. He's perpetually at the very top of tier two quarterbacks, and his run from 2006-2013 are the reasons why he'll be in The Hall, but even when the Chargers won a playoff game it was sometimes in spite of him, not because of him. He's obviously carried that franchise but that game in Miami a few weeks ago isn't technically an aberration; he's cost them several games over the years with that gunslinger ****...

I will disagree that Tony Romo was never a Top 5 QB--he was. The problem at Romo was that he never sustained that level of play in consecutive seasons. It's why in a head-to-head he is behind Rivers and peak to peak was not quite as talented or great as Rivers, but there isn't a huge gap there. But absolutely, Romo was a Top 5 quarterback in 2007, 2011, and 2014....for comparisons sake, Rivers was a Top 5 quarterback in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2013. Neither ever had a year where they were considered THE best quarterback in the game, but Rivers came the closest, and probably can make an argument for No. 2 some of those years. Romo was never higher than 4th. That's still damn good in a 32-quarterback league...

Lack of playoff success hurts them both:

Rivers (4-5, 0-1 AFC Championship games): 60% comp, 240 yards/game, 11-9 Td/int, 85.2 passer rating, 8 ypa
Romo (2-4, no NFC Championship games): 61.6% comp, 219 yards/game, 8-2 Td/int, 93 passer rating, 7.1 ypa
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:44 PM
 
1,281 posts, read 506,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Phillip Rivers is overrated. He had a good run and probably is a hall of famer, but he hasn't been elite since 2013, and yet we (fans, "experts") still romanticize him as if he's been year-in, year-out dominant like Brees or Brady or Manning. He's perpetually at the very top of tier two quarterbacks, and his run from 2006-2013 are the reasons why he'll be in The Hall, but even when the Chargers won a playoff game it was sometimes in spite of him, not because of him. He's obviously carried that franchise but that game in Miami a few weeks ago isn't technically an aberration; he's cost them several games over the years with that gunslinger ****...

I will disagree that Tony Romo was never a Top 5 QB--he was. The problem at Romo was that he never sustained that level of play in consecutive seasons. It's why in a head-to-head he is behind Rivers and peak to peak was not quite as talented or great as Rivers, but there isn't a huge gap there. But absolutely, Romo was a Top 5 quarterback in 2007, 2011, and 2014....for comparisons sake, Rivers was a Top 5 quarterback in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2013. Neither ever had a year where they were considered THE best quarterback in the game, but Rivers came the closest, and probably can make an argument for No. 2 some of those years. Romo was never higher than 4th. That's still damn good in a 32-quarterback league...

Lack of playoff success hurts them both:

Rivers (4-5, 0-1 AFC Championship games): 60% comp, 240 yards/game, 11-9 Td/int, 85.2 passer rating, 8 ypa
Romo (2-4, no NFC Championship games): 61.6% comp, 219 yards/game, 8-2 Td/int, 93 passer rating, 7.1 ypa

And out of those 3 divisional games romo the one in Green Bay was a winnable game but his fumbling and poor decision cost the cowboys the game.
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Old 11-26-2016, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,847,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfceast View Post
And out of those 3 divisional games romo the one in Green Bay was a winnable game but his fumbling and poor decision cost the cowboys the game.
Exactly! Both have had sorry playoff performances, and this illustrates my point that Rivers was only a slightly better quarterback. He certainly played on some better teams...

Rivers has/d more natural ability and more playoff success, so we think more favorably of him, but this isn't like we're comparing Romo to Brees. The gap here really isn't that large. Neither set the world on fire in the playoffs...
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Old 11-26-2016, 09:15 PM
 
1,281 posts, read 506,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Exactly! Both have had sorry playoff performances, and this illustrates my point that Rivers was only a slightly better quarterback. He certainly played on some better teams...

Rivers has/d more natural ability and more playoff success, so we think more favorably of him, but this isn't like we're comparing Romo to Brees. The gap here really isn't that large. Neither set the world on fire in the playoffs...
The one good thing that Romo did as a cowboy was beat the eagles in a wildcard game which was beautiful because I hate the eagles. I was shocked that after blowing out the eagles the offense could not score a TD at all in Minnesota and only produced 3 pts. That was the last of the Wade Phillips era
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