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Old 11-28-2016, 08:16 PM
 
357 posts, read 155,820 times
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It depends on the circumstances.

When you have the rest of the roster clicking around you and I think you're going to see a few examples over the next few years (Tannehill, Osweiler), you have to make a change. Some guys just have a very limited upside or can't perform on the big stage. I grew up a Pats fan and Bledsoe failed most of the time in big games. He was a good qb and person but just couldn't perform with pocket pressure. Current day, Carson Palmer & Sam Bradford remind me of what Bledsoe was. (Well Bradford is avg and limited) Alex Smith is another example of a good QB who's skills are limited. The jury still might be out but it's understandable why the Niners moved on from him after his loss to the Giants in that NFC championship game.

Then you have a number of guys who you wonder "what if" but limited by the rest of their roster. Dan Marino never had the luxury of having a good team but put up amazing numbers. I wonder what would happen if Phil Rivers quarterbacked some of those recent run heavy heavy defense Baltimore Raven teams (kind of like this years' Aaron Rodgers).
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Canberra, Australia
71 posts, read 33,044 times
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Came across this on twitter yesterday and fits well into this thread:

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Old 12-20-2016, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Here or There
3,961 posts, read 2,513,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
If winning in the playoffs is the benchmark for the quality of a quarterback then Trent Dilfer was better than Tony Romo. I'm not buying into that argument for a second.

There's so much that factors in. Can the defense prevent the other team from scoring? Do the receivers drop good passes? Can the backs hold onto the rock? Can the kickers execute their sole duty?

It's a team game. To place the success entire of a team on the quarterback is ridiculous
.
Right here.
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,225,826 times
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Interesting. Those Manning boys are pretty good - look at those playoff wins. But that makes me wonder.... we know Eli got most of those 8 playoff wins during those 2 Super Bowl seasons.. as i recall, that defense was pretty special.... perhaps they were 16th or worse during the regular season but once the playoffs started, that defense was the reason they won 2 Super Bowls. Eli was great, no doubt.. but the defense was pretty special as i recall.
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:29 AM
 
4,985 posts, read 11,057,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Interesting. Those Manning boys are pretty good - look at those playoff wins. But that makes me wonder.... we know Eli got most of those 8 playoff wins during those 2 Super Bowl seasons.. as i recall, that defense was pretty special.... perhaps they were 16th or worse during the regular season but once the playoffs started, that defense was the reason they won 2 Super Bowls. Eli was great, no doubt.. but the defense was pretty special as i recall.
There is flip side to the Peyton Manning statistics as well.....he also had 3 seasons with the Colts when his defense was number 1 or 2 in the NFL in points allowed and he went one and done in the playoffs...

Peyton won a lot of games with poor defenses, he also lost a lot of big games when he had great defenses...
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
11,723 posts, read 11,553,483 times
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I always say this, team game, team wins or losses are not a QB stat. Having an elite QB is great but the microscope analyzing that comes with it, can be over the top. When the Packers slumped so much was put on the QB, never mind no run game, no secondary, last I recall he doesn't play defense or cover kick offs or punts on special teams.

I don't necessarily agree with defense wins championships in every case but with offense only, how far will a team go? I think the best thing is a balanced team, all 3 phases. However, teams achieving balance, good players in all areas, not easy plus injuries taking out key players matters during the season, too.
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,225,826 times
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Another player on that list that surprises me is John Elway. (0 playoff wins with a bad defense). The story, as i recall it, was that Elway carried the Broncos to 3 Super Bowl appearances in the 1980s but every time, their defense would falter and they were manhandled in the Super Bowl. The score would indicate this was true but the stats above show that Elway always had a top defense and it wasn't until he got an All Pro RB that he eventually won the SUPER BOWL. Another one of those stats don't tell the WHOLE story things.... still interesting.
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,225,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
There is flip side to the Peyton Manning statistics as well.....he also had 3 seasons with the Colts when his defense was number 1 or 2 in the NFL in points allowed and he went one and done in the playoffs...

Peyton won a lot of games with poor defenses, he also lost a lot of big games when he had great defenses...
As has every QB... Montana lost to the Giants and the Bears when he had a top 5 defense.. Bradshaw lost to the Raiders, Dolphins, Broncos when he had a top 5 defense.. I would venture to guess that every time Brady lost a playoff game, it was with a top ranked defense.. but don't hold me to that!

Just because you have a top defense, doesn't mean they are gonna play like a top defense every game...
Aaron Rodgers had one of the top ranked defenses in 2009 and they went out and gave up 51 points to the Cardinals in the WC and LOST! On the surface you see Rodgers LOST in the PLAYOFFs (1 and done) with a Top Ranked defense but when you pull back the curtains and look at the nuts and bolts you realize, it may NOT have been Rodgers fault (>400 yards, 4TDs). All though, Rodgers did fumble the snap in OT that gave the Cardinals the TD win..
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Old 12-21-2016, 07:38 AM
 
158 posts, read 49,673 times
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Looking at the career playoff records for QB's....A few things stand out to me....Whenever we talk about a QB greatness, many people invariably go to "rings"...We all debate who was the greatest....Montana, no wait, Brady....It was Elway, no it wasn't, Marino was better....All good arguments. One name that never comes up....Starr. He was 9-1 in the playoffs with 7 championships. WOW. Now, I will be fair, he played on some GREAT overall teams. I am going to throw a number out there and I am sure Jonathan and Susan will correct me, lol....I am going to guess Starr played with (not researching it), mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 7 HOF players? Bradshaw was another GREAT QB, but he too played with I believe 11 HOF players


My point is leading to my case for Brady as the GOAT (I am NOT a Pats fan, Cowboys here....and for the record, my favorite QB was Staubach). Brady is 22-9 in the playoffs with 4 rings....Besides Brady, who will be a first ballot HOFer, give me 1 player from any of those teams who is a HOF player....Gronk is no shoe in due to the injuries. I guess Moss, but Brady didn't win a ring when Moss played. I have heard this mysterious argument that he played on some GREAT defenses...OK, fair enough. Is it also fair to say GREAT defenses have HOF players on them? I challenge you to give me 1, just 1, slam dunk HOFer from ANY of those defenses..................*crickets, crickets*


22-9....That is crazy good

Last edited by Gryffendor; 12-21-2016 at 07:59 AM..
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Old 12-21-2016, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,225,826 times
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uh.. Rodney Harrison SLAM DUNK
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