U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-14-2016, 03:29 PM
 
158 posts, read 50,305 times
Reputation: 72

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
What isn't accurate about my claim???

That Smith ISN'T a game manager? That was your claim....

I never said he wasn't a "good" QB, but he certainly isn't a "great" QB and he IS the definition of a game manager.....certainly isn't a gun slinger....

You say he has been a "good" QB since 2011...

Since 2011 he has never thrown for over 3400 yards in a season averages around 3200, the most TD's he has thrown in a season is 23, his average season is around 20....a number he will be lucky to reach this season and he averages about 6-7 Interceptions per season...his career QB rating is 85 and even if you look at just the past 5 seasons its around 92...

His numbers are pedestrian....the definition of average....the definition of "game manager".....in truth most of his numbers are "below average" in this day and age of NFL QB's

Smith has never "carried" a team...he IS "carried" by a stellar defense and typically a stellar ground game...

Smith's main job is just "not to screw it up"...again the definition of "game manager"

Feel free to back up your "claim" with more than just saying my "claim" isn't accurate without a shred of evidence to the contrary...


Blue, what is the definition of a "game manager"? Seriously, is it that if you throw the ball under 30 times for under 300 yards, you are a game manager? I guess Joe Montana is a "game manager"....Troy Aikman too? Aaron Rodgers, is widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best QB in the last 10 years. Go look at the numbers, the only year he has won a ring was when the Packers defense was #2 in the league....was he a game manager that year? What "stellar" rushing attack do the Chiefs have? They are ranked 25th in the league in rushing yards....that is stellar???? Total defense, the Chiefs are ranked 27th....what is stellar about that?

 
Old 12-14-2016, 03:32 PM
 
5,029 posts, read 11,139,896 times
Reputation: 12029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
If you are not a gunslinger then you are a game manager? Is that your point? My point is that he is not a game manager. Simple as that.
So....because you say so??

Thats how simple it is?? What point do you think you have made? You have made a statement that we should all just accept as gospel truth I guess..

Define game manager then and tell me why Smith ISN'T one....because he absolutely IS and the stats don't lie...

"It’s become almost politically incorrect to label Alex Smith a “game manager.” People who do so are made to feel close-minded and ignorant. Whatever. Not only is Smith indeed a game manager, but he’s the most game manager-ish game manager in the NFL. It’s not even close, in fact. People aren’t wrong for defending Smith, they’re just wrong in the way they do so. Instead of saying Smith is “much more than a game manager,” what they need to say is “Smith is a prototypical game manager, and for the Chiefs, that’s just fine.”

10 Things I Think About 2016 Kansas City Chiefs | The MMQB with Peter King

Here is the DEFINITION of GAME MANAGER from Wikipedia.

Feel free to point WHERE in this definition you DON'T see Alex Smith

In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games.[1][2] Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. The player is expected to not lose games with interceptions, fumbles, or poor decisions, particularly during important situations near the end of a game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager
 
Old 12-14-2016, 03:35 PM
 
158 posts, read 50,305 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
That's some serious revisionist history....

Carr hasn't had "11 truly great games" this season....

He has had 5 maybe 6 "great games" this season...3-4 good/OK games....2 stinkers both against KC and another not so great game against Tennessee that the team pulled out....

As for "truly great games" this season...

Carr has 4 games this season with a QB rating of 114 or better only 1 above 120 and 5 games with a QB rating below 90 lowest being 49% last week

Brady has 6 games over 114 with 4 of them over 120 and only 1 game with QB rating below 90 at 89%


You are missing my point. I am not arguing against Brady, I am arguing this "what have you done for me lately" mindset....How does Carr go from being at the top of the MVP argument to "hes out of it" based on 1 game....My point is reinforced with all of a sudden Rodgers is in it....He had 5-6 "sub par" games, but because he has 3 good games, now he is in the argument???? (again, no knock on Rodgers, he is a great QB, I am just using him as a valid example)....Are you saying that for MVP consideration we should only look at the last game as opposed to the entire season?

Last edited by Gryffendor; 12-14-2016 at 03:48 PM..
 
Old 12-14-2016, 03:48 PM
 
5,029 posts, read 11,139,896 times
Reputation: 12029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryffendor View Post
You are missing my point. I am not arguing against Brady, I am arguing this "what have you done for me lately" mindset....How does Carr go from being at the top of the MVP argument to "hes out of it" based on 1 game....My point is reinforced with all of a sudden Rodgers is in it....He had 5-6 "sub par" games, but because he has 3 good games, now he is in the argument???? (again, no knock on Rodgers, he is a great QB, I am just using him as a valid example)....Are you saying that for MVP consideration we should only look at the last game as opposed to the entire season?
You are missing my point and I wasn't even arguing FOR Brady just showing how ridiculous your claim was that Carr had played "11 TRULY GREAT GAMES"...verbatim what you said....

Carr HASN'T played 11 truly great games and I was using Brady as reference....

Carr only entered the MVP discussion in the last month or so he has been as much of a "beneficiary" of the "what have you done lately" mentality as he is now a victim of it after a very bad game...

This is an atypical season for MVP and so it likely will come down to the last few games of the season...

Every candidate has warts so it may come down to who plays the best the last few weeks...

Brady has been the best QB on the best team and if not for missing the first 4 games he would be running away with the award....

Rookies never win the award but Elliott may because of the lack of a clear QB winner...

Rodgers team needs to make playoffs for consideration...

Ryan was the leader and has the stats but he has had a couple of bad games plus no one trusts Atlanta not to bomb out down the stretch

Carr could play his way back into the discussion but its not like he was running away with the award before he flamed out against KC....he had only just taken the lead then lost badly to a division rival on National TV and yes that is enough to cost him the award...
 
Old 12-14-2016, 03:53 PM
 
158 posts, read 50,305 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post

Feel free to point WHERE in this definition you DON'T see Alex Smith

In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games.[1][2] Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. The player is expected to not lose games with interceptions, fumbles, or poor decisions, particularly during important situations near the end of a game.
Based on stats that you seem to take to heart, the Chiefs don't have either
 
Old 12-14-2016, 04:04 PM
 
5,029 posts, read 11,139,896 times
Reputation: 12029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryffendor View Post
Based on stats that you seem to take to heart, the Chiefs don't have either
According to Bill Belichick the only Defensive Stat that matters is Points Allowed...

KC is eighth in the NFL in points allowed....I would call that "strong defense"

This is also the first season probably in Alex Smith's career at KC or SF that he HASN'T benefitted from a strong running game....mostly due to key injuries

Despite that loss of running game Smith HAS NOT elevated HIS game...23rd ranked passer for yards....20th ranked for QB rating....27th ranked for TD's

Heck I was generous calling him "average"....he is "below average" in every major category

Alex Smith is the absolute DEFINITION of game manager....anyone who argues this point is clueless
 
Old 12-14-2016, 04:08 PM
 
4,361 posts, read 1,896,029 times
Reputation: 2430
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
So....because you say so??
You can throw all the stats out there that you want. The real evidence is in watching the games. Does Smith benefit from a good defense and running game? Absolutely. But watch his comeback win against Denver. Was that something a game manger QB would do on the road against a good defense? How about week one against San Diego? Smith has the ability to come up with big games and big drives if given the chance. It's not his fault that he's not asked to throw the ball 35+ times every game. Why can't you be a game manager who throws the ball 35+ times a game. Being a game manager is simply doing what the game plan asks for right? The bottom line is does the QB play efficiently? Since 2011 the answer has been yes for Alex Smith.

Also, over the last six seasons Smith has typically done considerable damage as a rushing threat. For some reason this year he has not, but again, over the last six seasons, he's been a very good weapon with his legs which is always a positive thing to have if you are also an efficient QB.
 
Old 12-14-2016, 04:12 PM
 
4,361 posts, read 1,896,029 times
Reputation: 2430
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Define game manager then and tell me why Smith ISN'T one....because he absolutely IS and the stats don't lie...
I'd define a Game Manger in the sense in which fans use it as a limited QB that is not very good. A game manger QB by common definition is never asked to win games. Off the top of my head I already gave two examples from this season alone where Smith was asked to win the game in the fourth quarter and he did just that, San Diego and Denver.
 
Old 12-14-2016, 04:13 PM
 
158 posts, read 50,305 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
According to Bill Belichick the only Defensive Stat that matters is Points Allowed...

KC is eighth in the NFL in points allowed....I would call that "strong defense"

This is also the first season probably in Alex Smith's career at KC or SF that he HASN'T benefitted from a strong running game....mostly due to key injuries

Despite that loss of running game Smith HAS NOT elevated HIS game...23rd ranked passer for yards....20th ranked for QB rating....27th ranked for TD's

Heck I was generous calling him "average"....he is "below average" in every major category

Alex Smith is the absolute DEFINITION of game manager....anyone who argues this point is clueless
Don't start cherry picking Blue, ruins the argument....using cold hard STATS....the Chiefs have the 27th ranked defense and the 25th rushing attack....2 of your points about a game manager was they benefit from a strong defense and rushing attack. According to the facts, they have neither. So how are they sitting at 10-3 if Smith is just going thru the motions?
 
Old 12-14-2016, 04:17 PM
 
4,361 posts, read 1,896,029 times
Reputation: 2430
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games.[1][2] Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. The player is expected to not lose games with interceptions, fumbles, or poor decisions, particularly during important situations near the end of a game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_manager
What about QB rating? Smith is routinely in the top half of the league in QB rating. Does that statistic not mean anything? And what about rushing yards? Do those not count for anything? A first down picked up with your feet is just as good as one threw the air. As I said before, this season not withstanding, Smith has been excellent in that department since 2011.



For the bolded part, isn't smith asked to do even more at the end of games? And has he not been successful when called upon?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top