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Old 01-23-2017, 12:03 PM
 
3,723 posts, read 3,884,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Joe Montana's playoff record on the road 2-5

Brady's playoff record on the road 3-4

The teams in the NFC West during Montana's run....

Atlanta Falcons

LA Rams

New Orleans Saints

A real murderer's row of teams there right?

Montana also won all his Superbowls during an era of historically weak AFC competition

Brady is better.....and sensible football fan can see that and most do...
Why bother arguing? That poster has laid such a solid argument - the Patriots and Tom Brady are overrated. Tom is a system QB and the fact that they play in a weak division allows them to consistently win games. Put them in a "tougher" division and they would not have had nearly as much success. The 49ers back in the 1980s had things much more difficult.

 
Old 01-23-2017, 03:38 PM
 
6,469 posts, read 3,466,105 times
Reputation: 10265
I posted this in another thread:

What defines greatness in such a team sport? SB wins, total yards, TD's, completion %, QB rating, athletic ability? We could all go around in circles and never come up with an answer.

In Aaron Rodgers having gone to one SB and won better than Jim Kelly who got to 4 and lost them all? How about a Dan Marino? What about Bradshaw with 4 SB wins yet he's never in the GOAT conversation because of the defense, and maybe rightfully so. Players and coaches to a tee say how hard it is to get into the playoffs, let along win 1 game in the playoffs, and to get all the way to the Super Bowl is SO difficult and to win it even more so.

This is a team sport, and regardless of the coach or the system in place, it comes down to execution on the field of play. I am not a fan of stats but Brady's' stats are there. At the end of the day, there is just one goal each season for any team, and that is to win the Super Bowl. QB's like Eli, Flacco, and others who have won could be deemed 2nd tier QB's at best.

In 15 healthy seasons (16 years but 1 out with injury), Brady has been the QB on a team that has reached the AFC Championship game 11 times (7-4) and is about to play in his 7th Super Bowl (hopefully 5-2 when all is said and done). I look at that alone, and then look at his stats, and I honestly just don't see another QB that could be considered the greatest ever over Brady. Montana went 4-0, but Brady has reached 3 more which speaks volumes. And we could argue being in th era of free agency and the NFL's wish for parity and Brady STILL doing what he started 16 years ago - call me a homer but Brady is the best.
 
Old 01-23-2017, 03:59 PM
 
Location: SF Giants Nation 2010◆2012◆2014
1,029 posts, read 585,433 times
Reputation: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
... Brady STILL doing what he started 16 years ago - call me a homer but Brady is the best.
Brady is the best. Montana is great too but not as great as Brady.

But 16 years ago let's give an honest appraisal here, Brady did not start it, Bledsoe did. Brady finished it, while they two were true team players, supporting each other.

One huge difference between Brady and Montana is how they started their careers. Brady stepped into a Super Bowl-ready team that Bledsoe kick-started and then handed off to Brady because of injury.

Montana had to relieve Steve (DeBerg, not Young!) midway through a 6-10 season.

Advantage: Patriots.
 
Old 01-23-2017, 05:53 PM
 
Location: NC
5,122 posts, read 1,827,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
Montana had to relieve Steve (DeBerg, not Young!) midway through a 6-10 season.

The facts disagree with you.
Montana played all of the 93 & 94 season for KC the 94 season included 2 losses to Marino in 5 weeks, 1 with Bono at QB the other with Montana at QB. I also can not find a 6-10 season in that time frame, they were 11-5 the 93 season and 9-7 the 94 season.

Steve Deberg was actually the 3rd starting QB for Miami during the 93 season after Marino and Mitchell were injured and won that ice bowl game in Dallas(Leon Lett's 2nd national TV disaster)
 
Old 01-23-2017, 06:15 PM
 
Location: SF Giants Nation 2010◆2012◆2014
1,029 posts, read 585,433 times
Reputation: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleh View Post
The facts disagree with you.
Montana played all of the 93 & 94 season for KC the 94 season included 2 losses to Marino in 5 weeks, 1 with Bono at QB the other with Montana at QB. I also can not find a 6-10 season in that time frame, they were 11-5 the 93 season and 9-7 the 94 season.

Steve Deberg was actually the 3rd starting QB for Miami during the 93 season after Marino and Mitchell were injured and won that ice bowl game in Dallas(Leon Lett's 2nd national TV disaster)
I'm comparing how they both started their NFL careers. You are looking at the 1993 season and beyond, but you have to look at 1980 for Montana. In 1980, DeBerg was the 49ers QB but by season end it was Montana. The following season, Montana took the 49ers to their first Super Bowl win, in XVI.

Emphasis mine -
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
One huge difference between Brady and Montana is how they started their careers. Brady stepped into a Super Bowl-ready team that Bledsoe kick-started and then handed off to Brady because of injury.

Montana had to relieve Steve (DeBerg, not Young!) midway through a 6-10 season.
For the 1980 49ers, DeBerg started 9 games and Montana started 7 games. The 49ers finished the season 6-10. In 1981 the 49ers went 13-3 and won Super Bowl XVI.

The facts do support this.
 
Old 01-23-2017, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 7,286,572 times
Reputation: 37479
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
Brady is the best. Montana is great too but not as great as Brady.

But 16 years ago let's give an honest appraisal here, Brady did not start it, Bledsoe did. Brady finished it, while they two were true team players, supporting each other.

One huge difference between Brady and Montana is how they started their careers. Brady stepped into a Super Bowl-ready team that Bledsoe kick-started and then handed off to Brady because of injury.

Montana had to relieve Steve (DeBerg, not Young!) midway through a 6-10 season.

Advantage: Patriots.
LOL

In Brady's rookie season (in which he played all of one series, throwing three passes) the Patriots were 5-11. His second season, the Patriots started 0-2 under Bledsoe and then were 11-3 with Brady as a starter. So I have no idea what on Earth Bledsoe 'kick-started'. It makes zero sense.

And how were the Patriots any more 'Super Bowl ready' that the 49ers? 5-13 during his career before he became the starter is 'Super Bowl ready'? That, too, makes no sense. At all.
 
Old 01-23-2017, 06:51 PM
 
Location: NC
5,122 posts, read 1,827,074 times
Reputation: 2374
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
I'm comparing how they both started their NFL careers. You are looking at the 1993 season and beyond, but you have to look at 1980 for Montana. In 1980, DeBerg was the 49ers QB but by season end it was Montana. The following season, Montana took the 49ers to their first Super Bowl win, in XVI.

Emphasis mine -

For the 1980 49ers, DeBerg started 9 games and Montana started 7 games. The 49ers finished the season 6-10. In 1981 the 49ers went 13-3 and won Super Bowl XVI.

The facts do support this.

quite correct, I assumed incorrectly you were referring to Montana taking over KC.


Marino has a winning record over Montana all-time at 2-1. In before some brainchild says Marino didnt win the one that mattered---as Ive been saying all along Marino won when the he had the better team, Montana won when he had the better team, it is not just about the QB position.
 
Old 01-23-2017, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
3,451 posts, read 8,158,513 times
Reputation: 2346
I'll always be partial to Joe Montana because he was my favorite non-Philadelphia Eagles player when I was growing up, but he probably gets edged by Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Those are the top 3 guys IMO, at least in my time as a fan, which goes back to 1981. (Stats and team success-wise, Otto Graham deserves a major shout out, and Aaron Rodgers could join those guys with maybe 2-4 more excellent seasons.) I'm not sure who was better between Manning and Brady; Brady has had more team success but I think he also played for a much better team than Manning did. Peyton Manning carried the Colts to an ungodly degree, something Brady (and for that matter, Montana) never needed to do to the same extent.
 
Old 01-23-2017, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
3,451 posts, read 8,158,513 times
Reputation: 2346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
LOL

In Brady's rookie season (in which he played all of one series, throwing three passes) the Patriots were 5-11. His second season, the Patriots started 0-2 under Bledsoe and then were 11-3 with Brady as a starter. So I have no idea what on Earth Bledsoe 'kick-started'. It makes zero sense.

And how were the Patriots any more 'Super Bowl ready' that the 49ers? 5-13 during his career before he became the starter is 'Super Bowl ready'? That, too, makes no sense. At all.
The Patriots had some success under Drew Bledsoe, even if they had a poor 2000 season - they made the playoffs in 1994, 1996 (won AFC title that year), 1997 (won AFC East), and 1998, and Bledsoe had a lot to do with that.

As a point of contrast, the 49ers went 2-14 the year before Joe Montana joined the team and 2-14 in Montana's rookie season when he hardly played. The 49ers had last had a winning season in 1976 and last made the playoffs in 1972 before Montana joined the team in 1979.

I think Brady has been even better than Joe Cool, but I wanted to provide all sides of the story.
 
Old 01-24-2017, 06:59 AM
 
16,532 posts, read 20,991,509 times
Reputation: 47991
Default Thoughts on Montana

I'd seen Joe Montana play at Mile High Stadium in 1982, '85, '93, and '94. Saw him carrying a clipboard in 1979 at Candlestick park. Joe Montana's career was helped inmeasurably by a guy who Paul Brown wanted to keep him hogtied as an offensive coordinator when he was with Cincinnati. That would be Bill Walsh.

When Bill Walsh came to the 49ers as head coach the franchise was sitting at the bottom of the standings of the NFC West. How far at the bottom? 2-11. They were 2-11 in 1978. They made a risky trade to a great player to get fans in the stands, as sellouts at Candlestick Park were few. That would be O.J. Simpson. I had vacation time still left, always wanted to visit Frisco, so I drove out there with a friend and went to the game. Mid November, cold as hell. Broncos beat them that day--was cold and damp as it was in mid November. I was aware of Montana's career with Notre Dame and was surprised that he was drafted in the second round. And as the 49ers were sitting at 2 games won I was even more surprised that Montana didn't even take the field, if nothing else but to gain some experience.

But Bill Walsh turned that club around with solid drafting the next year. Then it was 1981 where he made moves that started their run. And two of the big moves was acquiring Jack "Hacksaw" Reynolds from the L.A. Rams. Then after week 3 or 4 (?) he picked up Fred Dean from San Diego. Dean later went into the Pro Football HOF in 2008. Walsh drafted Ronnie Lott #1 in the draft, also drafted eric Wright and Keena Turner that year and voila! their defense came alive. they started out 1-2, then went on a streak where they only lost one game for the rest of that season IIRC. And I'm sure everyone knows how the 49ers did after that.

Montana walked into a great situation. I wonder how how his career would have turned out if he had been drafted by the Saints, Falcons, Buccaneers, Bears, Lions, etc. Walsh had Steve DeBerg do all the bullwork while Montana watched and learned. And IMO the 49ers had a fair amount of offensive talent with the 49ers already. In 1979 Walsh started from scratch, literally. In a decades time he became one of the best coaches ever. Montana ditched that clipboard and went to work. And absorbed all the information that Bill Walsh was giving him on and off the field.

I remember that 1994 game where he passed that ball to Willy Davis and beat the Broncos with 9 seconds left in the game. An incredible performance. By this time his body was starting to tell him to hang it up. Sad, because Montana was like a surgeon out on that field. He's always going to be in my top 3 of all time quarterbacks. Always.

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 01-24-2017 at 03:37 PM..
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