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Old 01-25-2017, 08:50 AM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,865,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
Me too. If Drew Bledsoe was healthy in the winter of 2000-2001, he starts Super Bowl XXXVI, the Patriots still win, and Bledsoe has his championship.

That in no way means Bledsoe is better than Brady. Brady is worlds better, but Bledsoe was good enough for the Pats to win SB XXXVI.
I'm not sure about that. Bledsoe was a gunslinger type QB. I imagine when Bledsoe went down, the Pats shrunk the playbook down so that Brady could operate in more of a game manager role in his first season starting. Had Bledsoe not gone down, Bledsoe may not have been as effective slinging the ball all over the field. As others have said, if he was so good for the Pats, why did they start 0-2 that season?

 
Old 01-25-2017, 09:15 AM
 
Location: SF Giants Nation 2010◆2012◆2014
1,033 posts, read 587,610 times
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I'm not saying Bledsoe leads them to the Super Bowl if he starts all 16 regular season games and the 2 playoff games. They needed Brady to get there, definitely. But once in the Super Bowl, if Bledsoe starts, Belichick manages the play calling and Bledsoe is good enough that the Pats win that game.

In game 2 of the season, when Bledsoe went down, Brady was only 5 for 10 for 46 yards and the Pats lost to the Jets, 10-3.

In the AFC Championship game when Brady went down, Bledsoe played the second half well enough on offense for them to win. Brady could have gone back into the game, but Belichick didn't bring him in.
Quote:
"You need a couple of quarterbacks in this league," said coach
Bill Belichick, who added Brady could have gone back in the game.
"Sooner or later you might need them and I'm glad we had them
today."
 
Old 01-25-2017, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,647 posts, read 4,233,952 times
Reputation: 4595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
I'm not sure about that. Bledsoe was a gunslinger type QB. I imagine when Bledsoe went down, the Pats shrunk the playbook down so that Brady could operate in more of a game manager role in his first season starting. Had Bledsoe not gone down, Bledsoe may not have been as effective slinging the ball all over the field. As others have said, if he was so good for the Pats, why did they start 0-2 that season?
I would say the same reason they went 2-2 the first 4 starts for Brady. The reason they were 5-5 after 10 games.. they had not yet gelled as a team. Once they truly gelled, it was the defense that carried them down the stretch and into the SB not allowing an opponent to score more than 17 points in the final 9 games (including 3 playoff games). Let me be very clear. In 2001 Tom Brady was a 1st year starter.. he was good at times, he was bad at times. he was NO WHERE NEAR the best QB in the league.. yet the Pats still won the SB.... As the season progressed Brady got better as you would expect, but not so good that Belichick took the reigns off..

Brady averaged LESS than 200 yards per game in 2001.. he had only ~150 yards passing in the SB... Brady was NOT the difference maker for the 2001 Patriots... now you can argue that Bledsoe would have shot them in the foot and so be it.. Brady certainly didn't do that and Belichick wouldn't let him..

I still think Brady is the GOAT just based on his accomplishments and longevity. Montana has an equally compelling argument. I saw them both play and there is no question in my mind that the 49ers would have at most 1 SB title without Montana.. i can NOT say the same for the Patriots and Brady..
 
Old 01-25-2017, 11:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Brady averaged LESS than 200 yards per game in 2001.. he had only ~150 yards passing in the SB... Brady was NOT the difference maker for the 2001 Patriots... now you can argue that Bledsoe would have shot them in the foot and so be it.. Brady certainly didn't do that and Belichick wouldn't let him..
Again, that could have been a good thing for the Patriots as opposed to a guy like Bledsoe leading the team and trying to throw for 300+ every game rather than running the ball and playing conservatively.
 
Old 01-25-2017, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,647 posts, read 4,233,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
Again, that could have been a good thing for the Patriots as opposed to a guy like Bledsoe leading the team and trying to throw for 300+ every game rather than running the ball and playing conservatively.
agreed.. Brady was, for all intents and purposes, driving the bus.
 
Old 01-25-2017, 02:43 PM
 
9,447 posts, read 7,128,216 times
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Here's going to be the final answer on whether Brady is or isn't to me.

How does Belichick do without him?

Will we get to see that?

We have, somewhat, in the past.. 36-44 with the Browns and 5-11 in one year at NE without Brady.

9-7 is the worst he has done with Brady.

But.. Then again.. He was 11-5 the one year in that span without Brady.

So.. I would love to know.. Is it coach, is it QB or is it the combination?

I don't think we'll get to see Brady without Belichick.. We MIGHT get to see Belichick without Brady, and somewhat have already.. and it wasn't really pretty. but.. Did Belichick figure out the formula in 2001?

By most MEASURABLE stats.. Brady is the best of all time. But, the intangibles matter alot. He's pretty high up there on many of those, too.. So.. As I said before.. It gets harder and harder to argue against him every year. Greatest since 2000? Yes, I think so.

Greatest of all time.. MAYBE not.. But he's way up the list.
 
Old 01-25-2017, 03:48 PM
 
Location: SF Giants Nation 2010◆2012◆2014
1,033 posts, read 587,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
So.. I would love to know.. Is it coach, is it QB or is it the combination?
As a Montana fan, and a football fan in general, it is the combination of QB and coaching. Walsh needed a unique talent to run his West Coast offense, and with Montana he had that. It was Walsh's system, but it certainly helped tremendously to have the great talent that Montana was. I don't think there is any QB greatness without having a great game plan and system to operate within.
 
Old 01-25-2017, 04:10 PM
 
9,447 posts, read 7,128,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
As a Montana fan, and a football fan in general, it is the combination of QB and coaching. Walsh needed a unique talent to run his West Coast offense, and with Montana he had that. It was Walsh's system, but it certainly helped tremendously to have the great talent that Montana was. I don't think there is any QB greatness without having a great game plan and system to operate within.
I was talking specifically about Belichick/Brady.. But.. You have a fair point.. The greatest QB of all time counting the intangibles, might play on a crappy team and wouldn't be thought of as the greatest because his stats would suck.
 
Old 01-25-2017, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,647 posts, read 4,233,952 times
Reputation: 4595
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
As a Montana fan, and a football fan in general, it is the combination of QB and coaching. Walsh needed a unique talent to run his West Coast offense, and with Montana he had that. It was Walsh's system, but it certainly helped tremendously to have the great talent that Montana was. I don't think there is any QB greatness without having a great game plan and system to operate within.
That's one of the arguments i use for Tom Landry being the greatest coach.. he had 3 different QBs lead his team to a SB and 4 different QBs to a NFC Championship game.
Meredith
Morton
Staubach
White

*Meredith led Dallas to the 1966 and 1967 NFL CHamp game.. which was the defacto NFC CHamp game.. before the leagues merged..

I think what Belicheck has done is unprecedented but he has done this with only 1 QB.. not that he couldn't do it with another QB or even 10.. but it does make you wonder..
 
Old 01-25-2017, 04:32 PM
 
9,447 posts, read 7,128,216 times
Reputation: 12220
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
That's one of the arguments i use for Tom Landry being the greatest coach.. he had 3 different QBs lead his team to a SB and 4 different QBs to a NFC Championship game.
Meredith
Morton
Staubach
White

*Meredith led Dallas to the 1966 and 1967 NFL CHamp game.. which was the defacto NFC CHamp game.. before the leagues merged..

I think what Belicheck has done is unprecedented but he has done this with only 1 QB.. not that he couldn't do it with another QB or even 10.. but it does make you wonder..
Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs.

Hell.. In '87 he basically put Williams in for the playoffs.

I think you can certainly look at him and say it was the system, not the QB.

Belichick,.. The way he's plugged and played various players.. That one you lean more towards the system.. But Brady has never played in the NFL for anyone else.. So, it's really hard to say.. Plus, then you factor in that Belichick didn't do well with his system without Brady..

I'd love to see Tom Brady playing for.. The Jets.. Or Green Bay.. Green Bay is better.. Just to see how he would do in a different system.
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