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Old 01-15-2017, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,224,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
tom brady is the goat, the lord of the rings..... the all time best.... hes won more games than any other quarterback....


some people like to count 2 superbowl losses against tb12 but i dont

well tb12 has gone to 6...thats right 6 superbowls...that means he had to win the division and the conference to get there....
and also...the superbowl is the holy grail of the nfl......tom brady made it possible that 53 team members and the whole coaching staff made it to the superbowl,,,,twice.... to at least have the opportunity to win,,,,,where as 30 teams (53 players on each team) did not) so even when they lost,,,the superbowls,,,they were there.... and had the chance for the holy grail
most football players never have that experience

dan marino never even got to a superbowl.....


patriots are a winning dynasty like no other....if you are the best,,,,everyone else is trying to spit on you....

think about it,,,,,,,,the average nfl career is 5-8 yrs? 8-10?? and their is the patriots and tom brady right at the top targets every year.....
when preseason....starts,,,its "how we going to beat the patriots" this year????????
they just won 6 straight conference championships.... no other nfl has ever done that


tom brady...the goat.....and some say in a soft conference when most of the time he has had to play against peyton manning????



he has more records than any other q.b. .... and he is still playing..
and he was 199th draft pick???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I try to cut YOUNG fans some slack... but seriously.
dan marino never even got to a superbowl.....
he has more records than any other q.b. Maybe Super BOwl Records...

if you gonna post something, please take 5 minutes to research your facts.. Opinions are one thing but geez.. FACTS are easy to confirm!

 
Old 01-15-2017, 01:59 PM
 
4,985 posts, read 11,055,388 times
Reputation: 11848
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
1. Still don't see how Manning "getting to 4 Superbowls" and losing 2 of them is more impressive than getting to SIX and winning FOUR of them, who cares about "different coaches" "different teams"

Me Neither but coaches matter, teams matter... if you don't think so, wait until Bill is gone and then you will sing a different song!

I absolutely think there is MERIT to a QB taking 2 different teams to 4 Super Bowls (2 each) all with different coaches and winning 2 (different teams).. There is a REASON why this has never been done.. because it aint easy. Granted there have not been many opportunities but i can think of a few HOF Super Bowl winning QBs that had a shot.. all failed except one.. you may think it means squat but don't forget who those Manning teams beat on the way to the Super BOwl! It matters, it may to you but it most certainly matters it is is IMPRESSIVE!

Brady is tops in my book because he has accomplished more regardless of circumstance but that does NOT mean that he was a BETTER QB than any of the others.. Yous simply splitting hairs trying to convince most hard core Colts/Broncos/49ers/Cowboy fans its so...

I think Brady was the best all time because he simply did more for longer than any other QB but i wouldn't waste a second trying to convince a Manning fan that Brady was better... because he has a legitimate argument.
The "2 different teams, 2 Super Bowl wins" is a made up accomplishment....

You hit the nail on the head, it never happened before because it pretty much COULDN'T...

I can think of two other opportunities, Montana with KC....Favre with Minnesota....

It took a unique set of circumstances for a HOF level QB to be available in the first place because with few exceptions as above, those players just don't change teams or become available

No one was sure Manning would ever play again or even be half the player he was before the neck surgeries and then Indy had a number 1 overall pick and a can't miss QB prospect...

If Manning had taken the Buffalo Bills or Cleveland Browns to the SB twice THEN I would be more impressed, lets face it ANY competent QB could have won that SB last year with THAT defense because Peyton was a BARELY competent QB last season. Manning went to a team that had everything in place to make a Super Bowl run except a QB....
 
Old 01-15-2017, 02:47 PM
 
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Manning also put together one of the greatest offenses of all time even though he lost that SB, shattering a bunch of Brady's records. He may have been bad last year, but he was good at the right times. Righting the ship against San Diego, the opening drive TD against NE for example.
 
Old 01-15-2017, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,886 posts, read 4,190,531 times
Reputation: 4161
This discussion is impossible to answer. How do you quantify different eras with different rules? How do you quantify that fact that say Dan Marino went to a team that never truly built around him and Joe Montana went to the 49ers (who were loaded at nearly ever position with talent)? If Marino and Montana switched would Montana still have won 4 rings?

By all metrics Marino was the far superior quarterback. Marino threw for 21,000 more yards, 147 more touchdowns, and was asked to do a lot more than Montana was as he had about 1600 more completions and 3000+ more attempts in his career.

I understand that intangibles come into play and you can't just go purely off of statistics but these GOAT arguments always revolve around a team accomplishment: championships. Does anyone truly think Eli Manning is historically greater than Aaron Rodgers just because he has 2 rings? Was Eli historically greater than Peyton until last year? Is Joe Flacco (LOL) on the same historical footing as Rodgers and Favre?

It all really comes down to personal preference and the emphasis you place on different metrics. I don't really think in terms of "GOAT" because it's impossible to quantify. For me, my favorite QB (really player in general) was Brett Favre. He was the most compelling and entertaining QB to watch and I hung on his every play.
 
Old 01-15-2017, 03:00 PM
 
11,719 posts, read 3,203,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
How is losing a conference championship game (like Montana did in 1990, arguably his best non-championship season)
The 49ers lost that game because of Roger Craig's fumble.

Quote:
Back to the question - I would give it to Brady. Why? The championships, yes. The six trips. The constant winning every single season. The game-winning drives. The tens trips (so far) to conference championship games. The amazing 11-2 record in opening playoff games. The juggernaut of 2007. The durability (missing 15 games due to injury in 16 seasons as a starter is extremely durable for a modern NFL quarterback). The winning with so many receivers and never a great running back.
I would also add being in the physical shape he is in at age 39.
 
Old 01-15-2017, 04:13 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,859,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarog View Post
Many argue he could be 6-0 in SBs, but he could also be 0-6. The interception against Seattle on the worst play-call in sports history changed everything for him. Rodgers has had similar playoff troubles. But that one play changed from Brady being a great QB who was a has-been in the biggest moments to potentially the GOAT (or at least undisputably top 2 or 3). It all changed on one play when he wasn't even on the field. It really is a team game. Defense really does win championships, even on offensive teams. Ranging from Butler's interception to Porter's pick 6 to the Ravens' goal-line stand.
While I mostly agree, and yes, it's 100% true that the Pats have always played close Super Bowls whether they won or lost, the two that the Pats did lose and there most recent one that they won all required miracle plays by the other team too. The ridiculous David Tyree play, then in 2011 I believe the unbelievable Manningham catch was also a fourth down play. And before the Seahawks gave the game away to the Pats, they needed a ridiculous catch off a long pass that was popped up into the air and somehow caught by the receiver just to get into that position. None of those are on Brady. And all of them are equally incomprehensible.
 
Old 01-15-2017, 04:27 PM
 
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2007 was a miracle play. 2011 was a great catch by Manningham (and a pathetic drop by Welker), not really miracle-level though. The Seahawks' reception was a miracle.

The point is that judgment of QBs is so results-oriented, and had the Seahawks just run the ball in, Brady would be labeled by many as almost as much of a playoff choker as Peyton Manning, fair or not.
 
Old 01-15-2017, 04:36 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,859,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarog View Post
2007 was a miracle play. 2011 was a great catch by Manningham (and a pathetic drop by Welker), not really miracle-level though. The Seahawks' reception was a miracle.

The point is that judgment of QBs is so results-oriented, and had the Seahawks just run the ball in, Brady would be labeled by many as almost as much of a playoff choker as Peyton Manning, fair or not.
Disagree because Brady still went to SIX Super Bowls. And how many more Conference Championship games? It would maybe have given Montana supporters more fuel but that's about it.
 
Old 01-15-2017, 04:50 PM
 
2,286 posts, read 1,511,430 times
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This is where Bills and 49ers fans would differ.
 
Old 01-15-2017, 04:55 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,859,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarog View Post
This is where Bills and 49ers fans would differ.
Explain?

Comparing the 49ers dynasty to the Bills dynasty is no contest. But 49ers dynasty to Pats current Dynasty is a whole different ball game.
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