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View Poll Results: Are Ryan, Rothlisberger, Brady & Rogers the 4 best NFL QB's today?
Yes, no doubt about it 21 61.76%
Nope, not even close 1 2.94%
Maybe they are this year, debatable. 12 35.29%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-18-2017, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,773 posts, read 4,275,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Expat View Post
I meant the question only as active NFL QB's. Ryan had a fantastic year and he's been good for awhile so I agree until a QB wins the SB, you have some doubts. Brees has definitely been in that top group but I'm not sure he still is, especially with Ryan coming on.
I would say right now, I'd list it as:

1. Tom Brady
1b/2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Drew Brees/Matt Ryan


When Kyle Shanahan goes to the 49ers, it will remain to be seen if Matt Ryan keeps up the progress. Shanahan has done wonders for Ryan, and I think without a strong OC, Ryan might struggle a bit. After all, Shanahan made RGIII look like one of the best QBs in the league in his rookie season.

Regardless of coaching changes, the other four quarterbacks I've mentioned, especially Tom, Aaron, and Ben, have all remained relatively elite. Brees has had a couple down seasons with the Saints, but he has still played well in my opinion. But I would definitely say no matter what, Ryan is in the top ten.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:01 AM
 
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I absolutely think so, and not just based on this year. Their resumes speak for themselves. Wilson, Newton - have had great sparks but not consistent high level IMO. Other QB's are 2nd tier (or way below) despite # of Super Bowls won like Eli Manning with two whom I don't consider a great QB. Carr had a great year but one year doesn't define the greatness of a QB. Same with Matt Ryan - phenominal year.....one year. The four in the conference championships are proven greats in this league over time.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Mooresville, NC
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Aaron Rodgers is carrying that team. With any other QB on that team they don't even make the playoffs, let alone the championship game.

The Pats still won without Brady and the Steelers have a solid team outside of Big Ben with play makers all around.

Ryan has had a good year, no doubt, but to say he's one of the best based on a single great season would be a stretch, this year he definitely was.
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Old 01-18-2017, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,274 posts, read 2,889,032 times
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I'm on record in saying Ryan, on balance, has been a Top 5/6 QB in the entire league throughout the last 9 years. However, without question, this is the first year that Matt Ryan has been a Top 3 QB. So to that, I say this---Kirk Cousins has for two straight years played at a Top 10 level. However, the general consensus amongst us fans, is that he isn't currently a Top 10 quarterback--despite his clearly playing at a Top 10 level in '15 and '16. So, why should the rules be applied differently to Matt Ryan? He had a down year just last year in 2015, by all accounts, and this is the first time he's played at a Top 3 level. So, it's okay to anoint him a Top 4 players based on one outstanding season that happens to follow up a mediocre season, but it's not okay to say Cousins is a Top 10 quarterback based on two years of Top 10 play?

Ditto for Roethlisberger, who has not played at an elite level in 2016, regular season or playoffs. If he's Top 4, what does that say for Drew Brees, who has consistently been a Top 5 QB for a decade? Brees has outplayed Ben over the duration of their careers. Hell, there are SEVERAL years it can be argued that Brees was the best player in the game, and honestly, he was probably robbed of at least one MVP in his prime. The case against Ben rests squarely with Drew Brees, there's no way you put Ben over Brees. Brees had a nice bounce back year this season and outplayed Ben across the board, just as he's done for 99% of his career....Ben is better compared to Matt Ryan for the 4-5 spot, maybe even 6...

I agree with everyone else that it's premature to put guys like Carr and Wilson in the convo. It's arguable to say that Carr (2016) and Wilson (2015) played a Top 5 levels in singular years, but they haven't strung it together long term. And please, stop comparing Wilson to Newton. There is no real comparison; in another thread, I'd gladly explain why. Wilson is in whatever tier Carr, Luck, Stafford are in. Newton may never have the consistency to even get that high...

So the real question that needs to be answered in this thread, is what makes an elite quarterback? How long do you have to play at a top level to be worthy of Top 5 discussion?

I'll take some time in a little while and do a more detailed evaluation of all four players, then come back to this thread. It's hard to argue against these four guys right now, but there is a clear case to be made these guys aren't the Top 4...
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:29 PM
 
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Carr and Brees are the only two that have an argument for being in the top four. But based on what we saw this year with Ryan and recent past history with Big Ben, I'm fine with saying these are the four best this year.
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Old 01-19-2017, 04:05 AM
 
Location: Washington State
18,991 posts, read 9,784,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I'm on record in saying Ryan, on balance, has been a Top 5/6 QB in the entire league throughout the last 9 years. However, without question, this is the first year that Matt Ryan has been a Top 3 QB. So to that, I say this---Kirk Cousins has for two straight years played at a Top 10 level. However, the general consensus amongst us fans, is that he isn't currently a Top 10 quarterback--despite his clearly playing at a Top 10 level in '15 and '16. So, why should the rules be applied differently to Matt Ryan? He had a down year just last year in 2015, by all accounts, and this is the first time he's played at a Top 3 level. So, it's okay to anoint him a Top 4 players based on one outstanding season that happens to follow up a mediocre season, but it's not okay to say Cousins is a Top 10 quarterback based on two years of Top 10 play?

Ditto for Roethlisberger, who has not played at an elite level in 2016, regular season or playoffs. If he's Top 4, what does that say for Drew Brees, who has consistently been a Top 5 QB for a decade? Brees has outplayed Ben over the duration of their careers. Hell, there are SEVERAL years it can be argued that Brees was the best player in the game, and honestly, he was probably robbed of at least one MVP in his prime. The case against Ben rests squarely with Drew Brees, there's no way you put Ben over Brees. Brees had a nice bounce back year this season and outplayed Ben across the board, just as he's done for 99% of his career....Ben is better compared to Matt Ryan for the 4-5 spot, maybe even 6...

I agree with everyone else that it's premature to put guys like Carr and Wilson in the convo. It's arguable to say that Carr (2016) and Wilson (2015) played a Top 5 levels in singular years, but they haven't strung it together long term. And please, stop comparing Wilson to Newton. There is no real comparison; in another thread, I'd gladly explain why. Wilson is in whatever tier Carr, Luck, Stafford are in. Newton may never have the consistency to even get that high...

So the real question that needs to be answered in this thread, is what makes an elite quarterback? How long do you have to play at a top level to be worthy of Top 5 discussion?

I'll take some time in a little while and do a more detailed evaluation of all four players, then come back to this thread. It's hard to argue against these four guys right now, but there is a clear case to be made these guys aren't the Top 4...
Definitely Brees puts up great numbers and I could see him in that top 4 but he also has a great coach helping his stats. Big Ben hasn't been great but he has 2 rings and wins close games more times than not....tough call but those 2 rings loom large in my mind.
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Old 01-19-2017, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
10,554 posts, read 6,002,372 times
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How many more January playoff games do we need when the team with the best QB advances in the vast majority of cases before those who say you don't really need a good QB will be convinced? For every Trent Dilfer there are 30 guys named Brady and Staubach.

Before last week I could not put Matt Ryan in the top teir, too many playoff failures. But that all changed with a great performance that totally changed his legacy. At least for now.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
How many more January playoff games do we need when the team with the best QB advances in the vast majority of cases before those who say you don't really need a good QB will be convinced? For every Trent Dilfer there are 30 guys named Brady and Staubach.

Before last week I could not put Matt Ryan in the top teir, too many playoff failures. But that all changed with a great performance that totally changed his legacy. At least for now.
Yeah, what's the stat, 13 of the last 14 Super Bowls on the AFC side have been quarterbacked by Big Ben, Peyton or Brady. Only exception being Joe Flacco. Having a great QB is huge.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:36 AM
 
4,333 posts, read 1,881,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I'm on record in saying Ryan, on balance, has been a Top 5/6 QB in the entire league throughout the last 9 years. However, without question, this is the first year that Matt Ryan has been a Top 3 QB. So to that, I say this---Kirk Cousins has for two straight years played at a Top 10 level. However, the general consensus amongst us fans, is that he isn't currently a Top 10 quarterback--despite his clearly playing at a Top 10 level in '15 and '16. So, why should the rules be applied differently to Matt Ryan? He had a down year just last year in 2015, by all accounts, and this is the first time he's played at a Top 3 level. So, it's okay to anoint him a Top 4 players based on one outstanding season that happens to follow up a mediocre season, but it's not okay to say Cousins is a Top 10 quarterback based on two years of Top 10 play?
Can't compare Cousins to Ryan who has a track record that spans almost an entire decade. He's also lead his team to two NFC Championship games now in the last five seasons. And this most recent season he was not only the best QB in the NFL statistically, but also put together one of the all time greatest seasons statistically for a QB, probably top 5 all time I am going to guess.

IMO, Cousins compares more with Carr than he does Ryan.
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Washington State
18,991 posts, read 9,784,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
How many more January playoff games do we need when the team with the best QB advances in the vast majority of cases before those who say you don't really need a good QB will be convinced? For every Trent Dilfer there are 30 guys named Brady and Staubach.

Before last week I could not put Matt Ryan in the top teir, too many playoff failures. But that all changed with a great performance that totally changed his legacy. At least for now.
That's why I can't argue against anyone having him lower down the list until he wins some big playoff games. This year, he has been as good as anyone...so far.
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