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View Poll Results: Are Ryan, Rothlisberger, Brady & Rogers the 4 best NFL QB's today?
Yes, no doubt about it 21 61.76%
Nope, not even close 1 2.94%
Maybe they are this year, debatable. 12 35.29%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-23-2017, 09:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHIP72 View Post
Ryan..Brady..Rodgers..
first three guys listed might be the top 3 QBs in the NFL right now, but I don't think Roethlisberger is the #4 guy (for a few years, he was a top 4 QB though). That's not meant to be a knock on Ben Roethlisberger BTW.
Chip, good write-up.
I'm curious, who would be your #4 for the 2016 season (?)
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth View Post
Chip, good write-up.
I'm curious, who would be your #4 for the 2016 season (?)
I was just thinking about that. Derek Carr had a really fine season before he got injured, and Drew Brees had a heck of a season that was overlooked somewhat because the Saints have become a mediocre team. Guys like Kirk Cousins (who is a little maligned by Redskins fans but has been pretty good the last 2 years), Matthew Stafford (at least before he injured his thumb; he had to carry a heavy load for Detroit), Andrew Luck (see comments about Matthew Stafford), and even Dak Prescott (who had a lot of help but was very efficient - reminded me in some ways of Roethlisberger's 2004 rookie season actually) deserve shout outs too. I'd probably say either Brees or Carr.
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:17 AM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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Some really good posts since I was here last. I totally agree with the Rodgers/Manning comparison and it illustrates why, fair or not, playoff success seperates the great QBs from Mt Rushmore. That applied to Peyton and Marino and it applies to Rodgers as well.

Of course on the flip side these playoffs have instantly elevated Matt Ryan from the bottom of tier two, where he was in nearly every opinion before the start of this season, to the top 4-5. Having great regular seasons simply isn't enough, see Mathew Stafford. You need to carry your team in January and clearly Ryan is doing this. It's great to see, very happy for him.
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Old 01-24-2017, 05:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post

@metalman, everything you alluded to in your first paragraph goes into QB greatness. It isn't just one thing specifically, it's a compilation of factors of good quarterbacking in even beyond statistics. Overall wins and losses and championship pedigree hold a heavy weight, though. They have to, otherwise, we just say every good quarterback is equal...
IMO it's what puts Brady above all others. THis is the first time I believe in his career Matt Ryan has been a best QB, and should deservingly win the MVP this year based on how it's voted on.

But Brady is in the discussion every year, and this year after 16+ years of his career he was lights out for the 12 games he played, mastering the Qb position as a pure pocket passer, nothing comparable to Rodgers or Roethlisberger or other mobile QB's. He wins, period, and consistently, never a down year in his career.
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:00 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHIP72 View Post
Ben Roethlisberger - excellent quarterback for a long time and likely future HOF, but not at the level he used to be (is merely good now rather than very good or great like he was a few years ago; the talent around him is masking his drop-off from great/very good to good)
Steelers WRs left five -- FIVE -- TDs on the field in just two playoff games.


Failed TD #1: During the third quarter against the Chiefs, Antonio Brown catches a pass in the end zone but fails to maintain possession as he falls to the ground, having the ball knocked loose by a Chiefs defender.

Failed TD #2: During the fourth quarter against the Chiefs, Eli Rogers fails to locate a seam pass that whistles past his ear at the goal line.

Failed TD #3: During the second quarter against the Patriots, Cobi Hamilton drops a pass in the end zone that hits him square in the numbers.

Failed TD #4: During the second quarter against the Patriots, Sammie Coates runs a sloppy route and has to dive for a pass that was well-placed near the left-rear pylon in the end zone.

Failed TD #5: During the third quarter against the Patriots, Cobi Hamilton carelessly steps out of bounds before catching a pass in the end zone, and gets penalized for illegal touching.


And those are just the failed TD plays. I understand that TDs are dropped or overturned by penalties sometimes, but five times in two games is abnormal, period. Other plays this post-season, such as Sammie Coates short-arming a perfectly thrown pass down the left sideline during the first quarter against the Patriots, or Antonio Brown letting a pass bounce off both of his hands for an INT during the second quarter against the Dolphins, make the WRs the primary culprit for the inconsistency of the Steelers offense during the post-season, not the QB.

Ben Roethlisberger wasn't perfect this post-season, but he was much better than the box score watchers give him credit for. He gave his WRs plenty of opportunities to make big plays, but too many times they dropped the ball, literally. And the dichotomy on the Steelers sideline late in the AFC Championship Game, with Roethlisberger stone-faced as the game slips away while Antonio Brown and the young WRs are laughing it up, illustrates where the problem really was all along, and makes it understandable why Roethlisberger isn't yet committed to returning next season.

Right now, Ben Roethlisberger is one of only five players left on the Steelers with a ring, and the only one left on offense, so if a bunch of ringless players are more interested in "having fun" than winning a Super Bowl, then why should he even bother, especially considering he takes all the blame for them? Besides, the Rooneys aren't paying players to have fun; they're paying them to win a Super Bowl. Having fun is a bonus, not a requirement of the job.
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Western Asia
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So if Ryan wins the Super Bowl, does he move up into the conversation as the possibly the best with Brady & Rodgers? I'm almost there but it will take a minimum of 2 seasons of playing at the standard of Brady & Rodgers to catapult him into that category for me.
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Old 01-30-2017, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
3,451 posts, read 8,160,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi View Post
Steelers WRs left five -- FIVE -- TDs on the field in just two playoff games.


Failed TD #1: During the third quarter against the Chiefs, Antonio Brown catches a pass in the end zone but fails to maintain possession as he falls to the ground, having the ball knocked loose by a Chiefs defender.

Failed TD #2: During the fourth quarter against the Chiefs, Eli Rogers fails to locate a seam pass that whistles past his ear at the goal line.

Failed TD #3: During the second quarter against the Patriots, Cobi Hamilton drops a pass in the end zone that hits him square in the numbers.

Failed TD #4: During the second quarter against the Patriots, Sammie Coates runs a sloppy route and has to dive for a pass that was well-placed near the left-rear pylon in the end zone.

Failed TD #5: During the third quarter against the Patriots, Cobi Hamilton carelessly steps out of bounds before catching a pass in the end zone, and gets penalized for illegal touching.


And those are just the failed TD plays. I understand that TDs are dropped or overturned by penalties sometimes, but five times in two games is abnormal, period. Other plays this post-season, such as Sammie Coates short-arming a perfectly thrown pass down the left sideline during the first quarter against the Patriots, or Antonio Brown letting a pass bounce off both of his hands for an INT during the second quarter against the Dolphins, make the WRs the primary culprit for the inconsistency of the Steelers offense during the post-season, not the QB.

Ben Roethlisberger wasn't perfect this post-season, but he was much better than the box score watchers give him credit for. He gave his WRs plenty of opportunities to make big plays, but too many times they dropped the ball, literally. And the dichotomy on the Steelers sideline late in the AFC Championship Game, with Roethlisberger stone-faced as the game slips away while Antonio Brown and the young WRs are laughing it up, illustrates where the problem really was all along, and makes it understandable why Roethlisberger isn't yet committed to returning next season.

Right now, Ben Roethlisberger is one of only five players left on the Steelers with a ring, and the only one left on offense, so if a bunch of ringless players are more interested in "having fun" than winning a Super Bowl, then why should he even bother, especially considering he takes all the blame for them? Besides, the Rooneys aren't paying players to have fun; they're paying them to win a Super Bowl. Having fun is a bonus, not a requirement of the job.
My comments about Roethlisberger were largely not based on how he performed in the playoffs this year. I will note however he was a little erratic at times during the playoffs.

Roethlisberger pretty much carried the Steelers for a couple years in the early 2010's IMO. He's no longer able to do that for more than a game or two here and there. Good quarterbacks can do that - that's why they are good - but great quarterbacks can carry a team for most or all of a season.
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Old 01-30-2017, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Expat View Post
So if Ryan wins the Super Bowl, does he move up into the conversation as the possibly the best with Brady & Rodgers? I'm almost there but it will take a minimum of 2 seasons of playing at the standard of Brady & Rodgers to catapult him into that category for me.
IMO, Brady and Rodgers would still be the top two guys and definitely at least a half-step above Ryan, but Ryan would move up a level with Drew Brees (currently; Brees was even higher a few years ago). The other good quarterbacks either aren't as established as Ryan and can't be considered at the same level (Carr, Prescott), are in the decline phase of their career (Roethlisberger, Rivers; Rivers was very good for a number of years, but has fallen off to average over the last couple of years), or haven't had a season as good as Ryan's 2016 campaign (Wilson - who was really good in 2015 but fell back to merely good in 2016, Luck, Cousins, Stafford).

(No offense to the quarterbacks not mentioned, some of whom are also good and may be better than a couple guys listed above.)
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Old 02-05-2017, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,845,639 times
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What does this do for Matt Ryan's placement right now?

I think we'll all agree that he's a Top 5 quarterback right now. But his playoff record is now 3-5, 0-1 Super Bowls, 1-1 NFC Championship Game. And look, he played a great game otherwise, but there are two crucial 4th quarter mistakes he made: the fumble, and the sack he took that made it 3rd&33. I'm by no means putting this L all on him, but an MVP, a Top 5 player, is expected to come up clutch and earn that reputation. He's not that yet. Top 5, but he made two crushing mistakes on consecutive drives...

Great QB but his team wilted under the pressure of the biggest game of their lives. And with his few mistakes, he did too. We would hold every other QB accountable for this. Ryan has to wear and own his mistakes, too...

I will say that he's proven to be elite. Now, let's see if he's the real deal or if this is a one season flash. It will be interesting to see how he performs without Shanahan. He's played almost perfect football this postseason but a 3-5 record, at this point, can't yet call him a winner!
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Western Asia
3,187 posts, read 1,449,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
What does this do for Matt Ryan's placement right now?

I think we'll all agree that he's a Top 5 quarterback right now. But his playoff record is now 3-5, 0-1 Super Bowls, 1-1 NFC Championship Game. And look, he played a great game otherwise, but there are two crucial 4th quarter mistakes he made: the fumble, and the sack he took that made it 3rd&33. I'm by no means putting this L all on him, but an MVP, a Top 5 player, is expected to come up clutch and earn that reputation. He's not that yet. Top 5, but he made two crushing mistakes on consecutive drives...

Great QB but his team wilted under the pressure of the biggest game of their lives. And with his few mistakes, he did too. We would hold every other QB accountable for this. Ryan has to wear and own his mistakes, too...

I will say that he's proven to be elite. Now, let's see if he's the real deal or if this is a one season flash. It will be interesting to see how he performs without Shanahan. He's played almost perfect football this postseason but a 3-5 record, at this point, can't yet call him a winner!
Ryan played well and some small mistakes by him in the 4th were key factors in the loss. I was ready to elevate him until the collapse. He's still top 5 for sure.


In my opinion, the Falcons were emotionally and physically tired and no longer able to match the Pats....Brady & Belichick just know how to win.
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