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Old 02-07-2017, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Southern NH
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Brady has one season with only 9 wins (2002). There were 2 seasons that were 10 - 4 (2005 and 2009). He has 12 seasons with 11 or more wins. Regular season winning % is 78%. Playoff winning % is 73%. 11 AFC championship games; won 7. 7 Super Bowls, won 5. No QB has ever done anything similar in the history of the NFL.
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Old 02-07-2017, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamusnh View Post
Brady has one season with only 9 wins (2002). There were 2 seasons that were 10 - 4 (2005 and 2009). He has 12 seasons with 11 or more wins. Regular season winning % is 78%. Playoff winning % is 73%. 11 AFC championship games; won 7. 7 Super Bowls, won 5. No QB has ever done anything similar in the history of the NFL.

Otto Graham played 10 years and took his team to the championship all 10 years winning 7 times.


He was also married to Lana Turner, Rita Hayworth and Eleanor Roosevelt, all at the same time.
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:00 PM
 
4,445 posts, read 3,525,516 times
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Originally Posted by seamusnh View Post
The Pats scoring 31 unanswered points on the Falcons was not due to the coaches decision not to run. You can't blame the Pats for the other coach's poor decision. He got out-coached by Belichick.

The Pats lost two close Super Bowls; one on a miracle one handed catch by David Tyree against his helmet (the last catch the guy made in the NFL) and the other on a dropped pass by Wes Welker. It could have been 7 Super Bowls as easily as it could have been 3... That's football...
They could be 7-0 just as easily as 0-7. No more what if scenarios.
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:28 PM
Status: "RIP Solomon Tekah" (set 7 days ago)
 
1,223 posts, read 580,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamusnh View Post
The Pats scoring 31 unanswered points on the Falcons was not due to the coaches decision not to run. You can't blame the Pats for the other coach's poor decision. He got out-coached by Belichick.

The Pats lost two close Super Bowls; one on a miracle one handed catch by David Tyree against his helmet (the last catch the guy made in the NFL) and the other on a dropped pass by Wes Welker. It could have been 7 Super Bowls as easily as it could have been 3... That's football...
I'm not bitter by any means but the bold is absolutely false.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOzqMK4wNlI

New England doesn't even score 31 straight had the Falcons did the logical and ran the ball and kick the FG. New England was cooked at that point and they needed the other team to bail them out and they got it. I give credit to the Pats for taking advantage and staying composed but let's not act like it was Belichick and Brady's plan to get down a couple of TD's just to come back. After the SB, I was writing GOAT in reference to Brady but I was caught in the moment. I had to add some perspective and Brady and Belichick are not the greatest ever, they probably moved to the upper echelon of the elite QB/coaches group but it's kind of hard when you delve into it. 5 rings and 2 L's vs 4 ring 0 L's?
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
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Originally Posted by seamusnh View Post
The Pats scoring 31 unanswered points on the Falcons was not due to the coaches decision not to run. You can't blame the Pats for the other coach's poor decision. He got out-coached by Belichick.
There's been quite a chorus over the past two days of "The Patriots won their last two Super Bowls 'cause the other guys made mistakes!", apparently done simply to impugn the accomplishments of a franchise the choir despises.

And my response is: 'Well, duh!'

That's football.

No one plays error-free games. The greatest teams playing their best games still make dozens of errors in those game. Essentially, winning football comes down to errors, as follows:

*Make fewer errors than the other team
*Make less-costly errors and make errors at less-critical times than the other team
*Capitalize on the other team's errors more than they capitalize on your errors

The Patriots didn't play error-free ball. Brady's decision to throw to Amendola when Alford was in position to pick it and run it back comes to mind. And Atlanta made him pay for the error. (But notice how no Falcons fans were running around saying 'Well, we only got that TD 'cause Brady made an error!' - how convenient.) That failed onside kick was also ill-advised. Note that Atlanta didn't take advantage of that one. Conversely, the Patriots absolutely converted Atlanta errors into points.

In the end, the difference I think was the white-hot spotlight of the Super Bowl - which was part of the reason I picked the Patriots to win. Belichick and Brady have been there done that over and over. Atlanta? They got the yips. Shanahan over-thought things. Ryan forgot the concept of clock-management. Quinn didn't reign them in. The froze in the headlights. Belichick and Brady didn't.

But this is nothing new. Teams win this way. Every single Super Bowl ring was won by capitalizing on the mistakes the other guys made.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Western Asia
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It's hard to know how much is Brady versus how much is Belichick. There's no doubt that Brady is the best QB of this era and I would say ever. No QB can do it without a team and a coach so I guess maybe Belichick is the best coach ever as well. Will they ride off into the sunset together?

Last edited by American Expat; 02-07-2017 at 09:46 PM..
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Fastphilly View Post
That argument is debunked by teams being able to acquire top tier players in free agency to add immediate impact to a teams performance. By limiting the amount of quality players on a roster due to salary cap (defensively)and changing the rules on defense to allow the passing game to thrive it has made a competent QB thrive in this era.
What top tier free agents did NE sign in the last 3-4 years? They signed castoffs from other teams that fit into their scheme.

In addition they had to trade two of their best defensive players this year (Jamie Collins, Chandler Jones) because they knew they couldn't afford them after this year. That "should" have weakened their defense considerably.

By they way they lost the best TE in the league halfway through the year and still managed to get the ring.

It was an amazing year for them. And I'm the biggest NE hater out there (Go Broncos!!!)
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:42 AM
 
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Patriots in great salary cap shape heading into 2017 | ProFootballTalk

Heading into the 2017 season, New England has the 6th most cap space available. Of the 10 teams with the most, 9 of them missed the playoffs. Very few people in the history of this league have been able to work their roster as good as Belichick can.
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:51 PM
 
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I've watched SBLI 3 times already. I've watched this entire 16 miracle run of Brady & Belichick. I've heard those outside of New England talking about "system" greater than the players. I've heard how it's because of Vinatieri the first two SB's were won. I've heard how lucky the Pats are for other teams mistakes.

SBLI was absolutely a coronation of many "best evers", and although always debatable, in my mind it was just fate that brought Kraft, Belichick, and Brady together. Those 3 are the "best evers" as are the Patriots as a franchise. I actually have been tugged a bit on holding back admittance listening to other, like Joe Montana's comments on Brady where he copped out saying Brady was the greatest, yet Terry Bradshaw (same # of rings as Montana) told Brady to his face he's the greatest ever.

Tom Brady's greatness isn't about athleticism, arm strength, or statistics. The sole purpose of each season in the NFL is to win the Super Bowl - it's what you play for. Brady got there 7 out of 15 playable years and won five of them. This game was absolutely won by Brady. The Falcons were making plays all game, and had a handle deep into the 4th quarter. The Pats just outplayed the Falcons in the 4th as I believe had a lot to do with conditioning. The Falcons played the game like a half marathon, and the Patriots played a marathon. Falcons paced themselves too fast. Brady's demeanor was the best in any Super Bowl I've seen him in. He was fired up, focused, intense, yet loose. He never barked in the game, as he lead them in a team effort without pressuring his own players. He was positive because he knew the stage he was on. Barking at his teammates got them to the dance, and he trusted his team.

Belichick and Brady will probably never be equaled again. This dynasty run of 16 years never should have happened as free agency was supposed to prevent a dominate team and allow for more parity. The Pats are so hated because 15 other AFC teams seemingly have no chance to get to the Super Bowl, as evidenced by 11 out of 15 appearances in the AFC Championship game by the Pats. People want to argue that # of rings doesn't necessarily mean you're the greatest. I was tired of that argument after the Pats beat Seattle. But now, with this greatest game (not just Super Bowl) in the history of the NFL, this win cements in gold how winning is everything in a team sport to define greatness. The numbers are too mind boggling to argue against.

OK. Pats homer fan over and out.
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Old 02-13-2017, 07:38 AM
 
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I would hold back that Kraft and even the Patriots as a franchise are the best ever. You have to look at the big picture. Before Brady/Belichick came along they were pretty much an average to below average franchise with 2 Super Bowl losses. It's been a great 16 (and ongoing) run but the NFL has been around a lot longer than that.

And Kraft is just an owner that let's his GM's manage and coach's coach. Basically a non-meddling owner. Kudos to him but he has no place in this conversation.
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