U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-18-2017, 09:09 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,856,810 times
Reputation: 2353

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Did you forget 2012 Adrian Peterson?
.
Forget? How so? I believe I counted him in the 2008 to present grouping.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-19-2017, 07:35 AM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,856,810 times
Reputation: 2353
Murk-

I don't disagree at all with your opinion of Brees. He absolutely deserves to be a first ballot HOFer. I also don't disagree with your opinion of Ben. I just don't think the HOF committee will share that opinion. I think he gets in first or second year. But I would love to see him wait longer. Reasons other than statistical reasons why I think he gets in first or second year:

1. He's a Steeler. One of the darling teams of the NFL. For example, I didn't think Jerome Bettis would ever get in. Well he made it in just four years. Relatively quickly IMO, since I thought he may never make it in with his 3.9 ypc career average and all while offering next to nothing as a receiving threat.

2. He plays with a very unique style. Standing in the pocket waiting far longer than a QB should. He is viewed by many as a "tough" QB despite missing many games as you have pointed out. Where as guys like Eli and Rivers have missed zero games since becoming starters. It's obvious which QBs are really the tough QBs but perception is greater than reality.

3. He's been the starting QB in 3 super bowls. He's won two super bowls as a starting QB.

4. He has a catchy nickname, "Big Ben" that people seem to like. Maybe that also helped "The Bus" get in?

Again, hope I am wrong but I would be shocked if he is not in by year two. And I would not be shocked at all if he makes it on his first year of eligibility.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2017, 07:50 AM
 
1,172 posts, read 477,867 times
Reputation: 1927
Agreed, Big Ben likely will get in the HoF. The combo of 2 SB wins (though he played poorly in one of them), very good if not transcendent regular season stats, and being a Steeler should do it.

Whether he's first ballot or not is another question. If he comes up in a really weak year for first timers like Jim Kelly did, he might sneak through. My guess is he's in for a good couple years wait but is elected eventually.

Drew Brees should be first ballot, and deservedly so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2017, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 7,272,570 times
Reputation: 37474
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
If Brees retired today after 16 seasons, he's a first ballot lock. There are only two other locks still playing currently--Ben ain't one of them. And we already believe the HOF process to be flawed--if BOTH Ben and Brees get in on the first try, the HOF is basically telling us they were equals, and I'd never take the HOF seriously again. Ben is good, he'll get there. Not in the same stratosphere as Brees, though, player-to-player...
While I don't care much at all what the Hall does, the above claim is silly.

Being inducted on the first ballot merely indicates that one, in the opinion of the voters, clears the threshold for induction on the first ballot. One player may clear it by a lot, while another player may barely clear it.

I mean, Dan Fouts and Warren Moon were first ballot inductees, and you'll find precious few people who think that they are the equal of another first ballot guy, Johnny Unitas. I mean, if you're going to be upset over a prospective situation of Roethlisberger and Brees both getting in at their first cracks at he Hall, why not already be upset at Fouts and Moon being considered 'equals' by the Hall? (your logic, by the way, not mine)

You might as well claim that all single season MVPs, or Rookies of the Year, are being called equal in their performances by the voting organizations that select them. Such a claim would be no less silly.

Note:
This is not a post calling Roethlisberger first ballot worthy. It's a post pointing out that your argument is specious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2017, 12:42 PM
 
1,172 posts, read 477,867 times
Reputation: 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
if BOTH Ben and Brees get in on the first try, the HOF is basically telling us they were equals.
Not necessarily. Some first ballot folks were no-brainer greats: Jim Brown, Johnny Unitas, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor, Anthony Munoz, and many more. But others were the best available first timer on the ballot in a weak overall year: Jackie Slater, Jim Kelly, Darrell Green. And still others were second best among first timers in a relatively weak year and got through: Jason Taylor, Dan Fouts, Warren Moon.

There's no one distinction here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top