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Old 06-01-2017, 05:21 AM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
2,123 posts, read 4,321,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everwinter View Post
5. Favre - played in the worst conditions known to man (which none of the above softies had to do) & still threw dead accurate missiles
Worst conditions known to man?????? If conditions are so bad how did this place make it to #1 stadium in the NFL???

Seems there is a contradiction in thoughts around here .

Last edited by BobTex; 06-01-2017 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTex View Post
Worst conditions known to man?????? If conditions are so bad how did this place make it to #1 stadium in the NFL???

Seems there is a contradiction in thoughts around here .
I was exaggerating just a little. It's impossible for a Wisconsinite to talk about Favre and not exaggerate. He is now the man, the legend.

The bitter cold is probably the worst in dec and Jan there (with Chicago being right up there) but the field is top notch.

Speaking of Favre. . . has there ever been a more fit QB post retirement? Doing triathalons, Trek 100, road races,
lifting heavy weights.
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,334 posts, read 21,912,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth View Post
Ghengis, Good list; I agree with you on Otto Graham. He's in my top 5.

Problem for Graham (in my opinion), is that a lot of contemporary NFL fans have either a shallow (or short-term) knowledge of pro football history, so Graham gets overlooked.

most contemporary NFL fans are only aware of what they're fed from ESPN. I'd also rank Joe Namath in my top 10 as he possessed perhaps the best arm of any QB I ever saw, including Marino...for a few seasons anyways, before his knees did him in. Nowadays, they'd have a routine micro surgery done, and he would have played at a high level for another 8 to 10 years.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:30 AM
 
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We've had this discussion pretty much on a yearly basis. Last year it was the GOAT quarterback.

In 2011, NFL Films conducted a poll of the 100 Greatest Players in NFL History. NFL Films head honcho Steve Sabol sought out opinions over several dozen media people, current NFL coaches, former NFL coaches, and former and current NFL administration people. I won't list the entire 100, just the quarterbacks. Keep in mind, this poll was done in 2011.

100. Joe Namath
91. Fran Tarkenton
83. Norm Van Brocklin
81. Steve Young
80. Troy Aikman
51. Bart Starr
50. Terry Bradshaw
46. Roger Staubach
25. Dan Marino
23. John Elway
21. Tom Brady
20. Brett Favre
16. Otto Graham
14. Sammy Baugh
8. Peyton Manning
6. Johnny Unitas
4. Joe Montana

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 06-01-2017 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
most contemporary NFL fans are only aware of what they're fed from ESPN. I'd also rank Joe Namath in my top 10 as he possessed perhaps the best arm of any QB I ever saw, including Marino...for a few seasons anyways, before his knees did him in. Nowadays, they'd have a routine micro surgery done, and he would have played at a high level for another 8 to 10 years.

Ghengis is right. In that era of pro ball, only Sonny Jurgensen had a stronger arm, even a bit stronger than John Unitas. He could throw a line drive at 50 yards effortlessly. I went to a few Jet/Bronco games back then, I know. What really hampered him in his last several years was a broken wrist that he got in the 1970 season-week 5. Lost for the year. In 1971 he was injured in week 2 of the exhibition season. He finally got back in for week 11, missing over three months. His last couple years, he got by on guts. By this time the Jets O-line of Hill, Herman, Plunkett, Schmidt were winding down. He played one last season with the Rams and quite honestly should have retired two years earlier. He couldn't run.

When Namath was signed by the Jets, Dr. James Nicholas done major surgery on Joe's right knee a month later. In the NFL Films bio "America's Game-The 1968 Jets," Namath stated that after the surgery, Dr. Nicholas told him "Joe, the surgery went well, we think you can play four years." What kind of ACL surgery did they have back in the early 60's. How about not much!

Google in--"Joe Namath Knee Brace." Dr. Nicholas created that with Joe in mind. There's pictures of it online.

And I'm quite familiar with that brace, I have one myself, my surgery was similar to Namath's. John Leidholdt was the Denver Bronco team doctor in the late 60's/mid 70's, he did my surgery in 1972. It's known as the "Lennox Hill Brace."

Yes, his career completion rate was only 50.2%. Yes, he had more interceptions than touchdown passes. But what people didn't know until Boston scribe Will McDonough (one of the best in the business BTW) stated in the ESPN "Sport Century" documentary on Namath was that he was used to calling his own plays and in fact called ALL his own plays in Super Bowl III. In the fourth quarter Namath did not throw a pass at all. He did his homework with what little film he had to work with regarding Baltimore.

He was far from the best, but he had involvement regarding the merging of the NFL and AFL. A lot more involvement than people believe.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,934 posts, read 19,163,377 times
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Manning, Brady, Elway, Montana, Marino; you can argue about the order, but those five are the upper tier.

If I was a GM of a team and could pick any of them in their prime though, I'd go with Manning. He carried some very average Colts teams to great heights and was truly the engine that made those teams run. I doubt we will ever again see a quarterback who has mastered the mental side of the game like Peyton did.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McBain II View Post
Manning, Brady, Elway, Montana, Marino; you can argue about the order, but those five are the upper tier.

If I was a GM of a team and could pick any of them in their prime though, I'd go with Manning. He carried some very average Colts teams to great heights and was truly the engine that made those teams run. I doubt we will ever again see a quarterback who has mastered the mental side of the game like Peyton did.
Agreed.

You can also make the argument for John Elway, not so much for football IQ but for sheer athletic ability. Until Terrell Davis, Gary Zimmerman, and Mark Schlereth came along in 1995 Elway basically took the Broncos to three super bowls by himself. The only pro bowler that he had on offense was on the O-line and that was Keith Bishop (two times.) His receivers were your basic NFL journeyman types (Mark Jackson, Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, etc. Shannon Sharpe started in 1991 and was a pro bowler for several seasons (and an NFL HOFer.) Same with the running backs. I loved Sammy Winder-and he DID have 2 1000 yd. rushing seasons but he still was your basic NFL journeyman player.

When Elway retired after the 1998 season he was the most sacked quarterback in NFL history with 516. Brett Favre passed him with 525. Elway played 16 seasons (1983 to 1998.) Favre played 20 seasons (1991 to 2010.)

Elway forever will get the knock of caving when it came to the three super bowl losses. But he didn't give up 38 points to the NY Giants, 42 points to the Washington Redskins, and 56 points to the San Francisco 49ers. And the masterminds from those three clubs are NFL HOFers--Bill Parcells, Joe Gibbs, and Bill Walsh.

When push came to shove Denver got pushed and shoved on both sides of the line. And Dan Reeves got out coached. Denver would get steamrolled on the scoreboard and the harder Elway tried, the worse he played.

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 06-02-2017 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 06-02-2017, 01:21 PM
 
9,426 posts, read 7,098,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H View Post
Elway forever will get the knock of caving when it came to the three super bowl losses.
Nah.. He will forever be remembered for having teeth bigger than a horse, tho.

Elway didn't play good in any of the Super Bowls, tho. He was actually decent in the Giants game, but when you come up against that defense and an opposing QB with a 150 rating who throws 3 incompletions.. yeah, makes it tough.

He played good in the first quarter of the Redskins game, then they tagged on 35 points in 15 minutes.. And he just never had a chance against SF.

But.. He played VERY bad in those last two games.

10/26 for 108 and 2 picks against SF and 14/38 for 257 with 1TD and 3 INTs against Washington.

Washington had a good defense, not great, just good.. SF's wasn't all that great as I recall..

I would understand better if those numbers came in the Giants game. Because they were likely the best D out of the three he lost against.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 98,928 times
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I forgot, I would like to give special mention to Sid Luckman. Mr. Sid Luckman played in the 1940's when passing the ball was practically a different game. Sid Luckman still holds the record of most TD passes in a game (7) that's right, seven. It has been tied, yet never surpassed. Maybe, it never will!
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
I forgot, I would like to give special mention to Sid Luckman. Mr. Sid Luckman played in the 1940's when passing the ball was practically a different game. Sid Luckman still holds the record of most TD passes in a game (7) that's right, seven. It has been tied, yet never surpassed. Maybe, it never will!
For Luckman to throw 7 td's in a game, in HIS era, is an impressive stat, especially considering that the passing game was, well, ya know!. Yep, he was the first, Peyton Manning being the most recent quarterback to do it.

He also was the qb of the Bears glory years in the 1940's, winning the NFL Championship in 1940, 1941, 1943, and 1946.

The NFL Hall Of Fame was established in 1963, Luckman going in a couple years later!
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