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Old 08-15-2017, 08:23 PM
 
6,566 posts, read 9,083,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post

How will Manning or Brady make a loose team tighter?
Woops. The thing is the spell check doesn't detect "loosing" as a misspelled word. I guess that's how I missed it.

 
Old 08-15-2017, 08:26 PM
 
6,566 posts, read 9,083,582 times
Reputation: 2842
For me the strongest support for Brady is that he can be effective even with average receivers. Most losing teams will probably have average receivers.
 
Old 08-16-2017, 05:00 PM
 
4,986 posts, read 11,066,062 times
Reputation: 11855
Quote:
Originally Posted by everwinter View Post
I'd prefer to go with Favre at age 28 over the above 2. At least Favre won an NFL MVP when he was 28. But if I had to go with 2nd best I'd go with Manning. It took Brady until he was 30 to get NFL MVP. Manning already had 2 MVP awards by age 28. I'll trust the MVP committee & I'll also go with maturity.
(mod cut-one sentence deleted)

The MVP "committee" is a bunch of sportswriters....not players, ex-players or coaches, ex-coaches....just writers who are easily influenced by the "flavor of the month".

There were CLEARLY seasons when Peyton got the MVP because everyone loved Peyton, not because he was the "best" that season. 2009 in particular Brees should have definitely won over Peyton and in 2008 Peyton won MVP with pedestrian stats at best

Drew Brees Snubbed: Manning's MVP Selection Shows Prejudice Amongst Voters | Bleacher Report

I guess I'll go with SB MVP awards then...

Brady had 2 before the age of 28 and 4 total...(and Brady had actually BEEN to SB's by age 28 something Manning couldn't accomplish)

Favre never got one....

Manning was over 30 before he got his one and only....

So again, Brady it is

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 08-16-2017 at 07:34 PM.. Reason: lighten up, ok?
 
Old 08-16-2017, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,421 posts, read 17,417,313 times
Reputation: 14102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post

...If anyone HONESTLY believes Peyton did more with less talent than Brady they are kidding themselves....
If you're referring to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoNewk View Post
...If I had to pick, I'd go with Peyton. His teams without him were usually pretty horrid, while Tom's Patriots seemed to keep right on clicking when he was down....
I was referring to the games/years when Tom or Peyton weren't able to play. Maybe it's all in the backups, maybe it's the coaches, but it seems the Pats can win just fine without Brady. Take last season, for example, when Tom was suspended the first 4 games. His team won without him (3-1?). Over the years it's always been this way, at least it seems so to me.

But when Peyton was absent, his team couldn't win. I think 2011 was his last year in Indy, sort of. That's the year he didn't play following neck surgery. The Colts won... the #1 draft pick for 2012! Seems like a few years before that Brady was out most of the year... and I think they still made it to the playoffs.

The only point I was making with that post was that, for whatever reason, Peyton's teams seemed to miss him a lot more than they missed Tom when he was out.
 
Old 08-16-2017, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,943 posts, read 19,172,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoNewk View Post
As much as I love and respect Manning, he didn't do well under a new system his last year, even though his team won a Super Bowl. How much of that was he age and how much was the new system we'll never know.
The problem with that statement is that NOBODY on the team had run that system before. Kubiak and Dennison tried to install their West Coast Offense while merging it with large elements of the previous offense. The result was a convoluted hybrid system that lacked any experts (players or coaches) to help ease along the process. As a result, you saw Manning with his best asset (mental mastery) taken away from him.

Aging and injuries had certainly taken their toll on Peyton by this time, but we did get to see a handful of stretches there in 2015 (mainly the end of the Chiefs game in week 2, and the game against the Packers) where the Broncos reverted to their previous offense and Manning performed well.
 
Old 08-17-2017, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,943 posts, read 19,172,970 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Brady

There is no comparison whatsoever particularly post season Brady vs post season Manning
First of all, I think it is exceedingly cute how triggered this makes you. The inferiority complex you have over Peyton Manning is one of the most fascinating things I have ever seen, but you're certainly not the only Patriots fan to suffer from such an affliction. Normally I'd be content to just let you rant for the sake of your fragile ego, but there are a couple points here that need to be debunked pronto.

Quote:
I also don't get where people think Manning would be able to "adapt" to a new system better than Brady...

Manning pretty much played "one system" his whole career....including his record breaking year under Fox in Denver....when finally asked to play a "different system" under Kubiak he was statistically the WORST QB IN FOOTBALL his last year in the league....maybe it was mostly injury but he certainly didn't prove that he could play a different system.

Brady meanwhile, though he has played for the same head coach his whole career has evolved along with his offense and anyone who follows the Pats knows the offense has changed drastically from 2001 until now going from run heavy to dink and dunk to west coast to vertical to multiple...

Want to emphasize the run and go play action? Check... Brady has done it and thrived

Want to go empty set backfield and throw all over the field? Check...Brady has done it and thrived

Want to go 12 personnel with 2 TE's? Check....Brady has done it and thrived

Want to throw downfield, outside the numbers? Check (see Randy Moss years) Brady has done it and thrived

I don't understand how anyone who watches the Patriots would think Brady would not thrive in ANY system, he has shown through out the years that he can run ANY offense because the Patriots can trot out ANY offense and do depending on the team and game plan.
Let's just be frank here; you don't have a flipping clue what you are talking about.

First, the idea that Peyton Manning played in "one system" his entire career is hilariously wrong. Let's recap here:

- Started with Tom Moore's system, which was (at the time) a fairly unique system in the NFL and noted for its simplicity.

- Clyde Christensen took over after Moore retired, and he introduced a substantial number of changes to the offense, including more complexity in the schemes and more variations in personnel.

- Manning comes to Denver in 2012, and is now in an Erhardt-Perkins system that had been in place since we brought Josh McDaniels over in 2009, and whose offensive coordinator (Mike McCoy) was still with the team.

- McCoy leaves after the season and Adam Gase takes over. Gase makes his own wholesale changes to the offense (including the implementation of pistol sets, more zone runs and heavier uses of screen passes) and proceeds to re-write just about every offensive record, including much of what he took back from your boy Brady.

- John Fox gets fired after the 2014 season, and Gase follows him to Chicago. Kubiak and Dennison bring their offense to Denver and try to mold it with the existing offense with less than stellar results.

In case you have lost count, that is three distinct offensive systems he has operated in, five if you count the individual variants of Gase and Christensen. For the record, the only offense in use in the NFL that Manning hasn't played in is the Air Coryell system run by guys like Norv Turner.

Brady, on the other hand, has played in same Erhardt-Perkins offense that was installed when Belichick brought Charlie Weis over in 2000. Josh McDaniels, Bill O'Brien and Josh McDaniels (again) have used the same base offense and nomenclature for Brady's entire career. Your claim that the Patriots have run a West Coast Offense under Brady shows a shocking lack of knowledge about your own team. None of the offensive coordinators Brady has played under have any connection to the Walsh coaching tree nor have they run his system or any of its variants.
 
Old 08-17-2017, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,756 posts, read 4,241,502 times
Reputation: 3829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt AZ View Post
Sometimes losing makes an already too loose of a team lose even more. However, other times a loose team actually means they're a tight team and may just help them win more.

Surprisingly makes a lot of sense!
 
Old 08-17-2017, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,756 posts, read 4,241,502 times
Reputation: 3829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Woops. The thing is the spell check doesn't detect "loosing" as a misspelled word. I guess that's how I missed it.
I'm just messin' with ya! It's a very common mistake that I've even seen in professional editorials. It is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. The other one is "rediculous" instead of ridiculous. But to answer your question, it depends upon what that losing team needs. If their offensive line is horrible, it's not going to matter who's behind center. But both possess the leadership skills and accuracy needed to lead a team to victories, so for me, neither one is the wrong choice.
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