U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-05-2018, 08:54 AM
 
6,449 posts, read 3,458,717 times
Reputation: 10253

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I definitely wouldn't call that Brady's best game. He had at least three or four throws that could have been picked because of underthrows or poor ball placement. His situational awareness, a skill he's been amongst the best to ever have, was not particularly great (that run before half, the clock management before half, not being able to feel the pressure and get rid of the ball before the strip sack). Yes, it's a team game, and there is plenty of blame to go around for the loss, but Brady played a better games versus Carolina 14 years ago, he played a better game versus Seattle three years ago....

It was his best statistical Super Bowl. It was far from his best game...

I was on the phone with my dad last night, who gave an interesting thought. He said he'd take Montana over Brady still, but offered that because we've watched Brady lose three times (and basically his first SB win was won by the Pats D), we've seen more of his errors on the big stage. We've seen him play not so great, like last year even though he won. And again my dad, who is 53, his opinion is that seeing those flaws in Brady stick in the minds eye, whereas Montana never played poorly enough to contribute to a 25-point deficit, Montana made his own legendary plays, and he never lost. Our eyes saw less of his flaws, so we may tend to exaggerate Brady's...

He also applied this same logic to the comparable Jordan/Lebron debate, and it's a very interesting, thoughtful take. It doesn't necessarily mean Montana was better, but he looked better without some of the same mistakes...
Many wobbly throws. Many behind receivers, which I've seen a lot late in the season and in the playoffs. His timing has been off a bit this year, more so than in past years. The stats were monstrous against a great defense. No matter, if anyone tries to take this game and try to reduce Brady's legacy by 1% then they are clueless NFL fans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-05-2018, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,212 posts, read 2,831,702 times
Reputation: 4502
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmancpa View Post
Many wobbly throws. Many behind receivers, which I've seen a lot late in the season and in the playoffs. His timing has been off a bit this year, more so than in past years. The stats were monstrous against a great defense. No matter, if anyone tries to take this game and try to reduce Brady's legacy by 1% then they are clueless NFL fans.
I absolutely agree. Brady's B game is an A+ game for 99% of quarterbacks who ever played, so his legacy can't be diminished, Brady is set in stone. He played well, but with the leaky defense and the issues the team had around him, it wasn't well enough to win, and I think he would say the same. It wasn't his best Super Bowl, but hell, it's better than damn near anybody else has ever done lol...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2018, 09:19 AM
 
5,281 posts, read 3,321,375 times
Reputation: 6467
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Looking at last nights game, Brady had his Best SB performance in 8 tries yet HE LOST.. or better yet, his team LOST.. getting back to your original point, it is a TEAM GAME!
Totally agree, it's definitely a "team game", although many might argue that the QB is the most important position on the entire team. There have definitely been OK and average QB's that have won Super Bowls, and have either played out of their mind for that single game, or had great defenses that helped them secure the victory.

What I find interesting, is that in Brady's 8 Super Bowl games, all 8 were basically a coin flip and depending on 1 or 2 plays, could have had a completely opposite outcome, meaning Brady could be 8-0 or 0-8 and ever single possible combination in between in his 8 Super Bowls.

I'm old enough to remember Montana and like others have mentioned it's hard to compare different eras, with different rules and officiating, just like Jordan vs. James. Obviously, if Brady was 5-0, and played in only 5 Super Bowls, some of the people choosing Montana might come over to the Brady side, but with the 3 Super Bowl losses, whether it's fair or not, people will undoubtedly use that against Brady.

In Montana's 4 Super Bowls, 2 were blowouts, XIX and XXIV and 2 were a lot closer, XVI and XXIII.

Last edited by cjseliga; 02-05-2018 at 09:28 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2018, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,323 posts, read 6,169,969 times
Reputation: 11627
Its really impossible to say, but a few points.

Guys like Smith are "paid" to have controversial opinions. People won't watch Talking Heads that tell them that water's wet and the sky is blue. Taking a position that Montana is better despite empirical evidence to the contrary makes people argue and watch/read.

Brady doesn't seem to have the Howitzer of an arm that Montana had. Brady, while exceedingly accomplished, has benefited from Bellichick, who as both GM and Coach has an uncanny ability to put a team together of the right people.

Despite all that, its a stretch (unless you've coached them both) to say Montana is superior in the absence of data proving the contrary.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2018, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,224,097 times
Reputation: 4582
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
Its really impossible to say, but a few points.

Guys like Smith are "paid" to have controversial opinions. People won't watch Talking Heads that tell them that water's wet and the sky is blue. Taking a position that Montana is better despite empirical evidence to the contrary makes people argue and watch/read.

Brady doesn't seem to have the Howitzer of an arm that Montana had. Brady, while exceedingly accomplished, has benefited from Bellichick, who as both GM and Coach has an uncanny ability to put a team together of the right people.

Despite all that, its a stretch (unless you've coached them both) to say Montana is superior in the absence of data proving the contrary.

I will preface this by saying my memory is bad.. but Montana didn't have a Howitzer that i can recall... in fact i would argue Brady has the stronger arm... Montana ran the dink and dunk offense (west coast)... 95% of his throws were within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage... now John Elway, he had a Howizter...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2018, 01:56 PM
JL
 
7,352 posts, read 11,885,191 times
Reputation: 7198
slight edge to brady for me. winning 5 is what did it. i do give the 49ers a slight edge as greatest team. they had 3 blowouts in their superbowls while the pats had all close games.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2018, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,224,097 times
Reputation: 4582
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL View Post
slight edge to brady for me. winning 5 is what did it. i do give the 49ers a slight edge as greatest team. they had 3 blowouts in their superbowls while the pats had all close games.
The crazy thing, every Super Bowl back then was a blowout! go figure..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2018, 03:14 PM
 
11,057 posts, read 3,761,034 times
Reputation: 5197
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I definitely wouldn't call that Brady's best game; objectively, Nick Foles outplayed him...


Foles had better protection, a better offensive line and was going against the 29th ranked Pats defense.

Foles 28-43 , 373 YDS, 3 TD, 1 INT


Brady was hit a lot and pressured a lot and he was going against the 4th ranked defense and the #1 rush defense in the league.

Brady 28-48, 505 YDS, 3 TD, 0 INT.


This came down to defense and special teams. Although both defenses sucked last night. Eagles defense made the 1 key stop and the Pats defense didn't. Special teams the Pats gave 4 points away.

This game could have gone either way and it came down to 1 or 2 plays in the 4th quarter by the Defense that 1 team made and the other didn't.

Pats defense got exposed to the 29th ranked Defense that they are.....they couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop the pass, couldn't put pressure on Foley and worst of all couldn't tackle.

Tell when Montana won a SB with a 29th ranked defense, let alone win the NFC championship game with a bad defense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2018, 03:27 PM
 
11,057 posts, read 3,761,034 times
Reputation: 5197
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL View Post
slight edge to brady for me. winning 5 is what did it. i do give the 49ers a slight edge as greatest team. they had 3 blowouts in their superbowls while the pats had all close games.
Montana only took the 49ers to 4 SB from 1981 to 1989. He took the 49ers to NFC championship game 5 times

Brady has taken the Pats to 8 SB from 2001 to present. He took the Patriots to the AFC championship game 12 times.



this is not even close......I will take the QB that can take me 8 times to the SB (win 5) and puts me in the best position to be in the SB by playing in the conference championship game 12 times.


and Brady isn't done, I think he has 1 more in him.

Last edited by Hellion1999; 02-05-2018 at 04:01 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2018, 03:38 PM
 
6,449 posts, read 3,458,717 times
Reputation: 10253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
Montana only took the 49ers to 4 SB from 1981 to 1989. He took the 49ers to NFC championship game 5 times

Brady has taken the Pats to 8 SB from 2001 to present. He took the Patriots to the AFC championship game 12 times.

this is not even close......I will take the QB that can take me 8 times to the SB (win 5) and puts me in the best position to be in the SB by playing in the conference championship game 12 times.

and Brady isn't done, I think he was 1 more in him.
No it's not even close, and the fact there is even a discussion about it is somewhat comical. Comparisons can go back and forth for various reason, but what this team with Brady and all the different and mostly not HOF caliper players on offense is striking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top