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Old 05-25-2018, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Phila Pa
2,775 posts, read 1,974,047 times
Reputation: 1055

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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
That would be dependent on the contents of the NFL's agreement with the player's union. Anyone actually read what is no doubt a convoluted path through a jungle of legalese?
Listening to the head of the NFLPA this morning, he is interpreting the new rule as the owners have the power to make individual team policies regarding going out for the anthem or not. Of course if they go out the team is fined if one player protests.
On the other hand an owner can order everyone to remain off the field depriving those who want to stand from not doing so.
This is not necessarily going to be an individual players choice.
Also clarification is needed on weather things like raising a fist or locking arms is a violation of the policy.

 
Old 05-25-2018, 03:39 PM
 
32,646 posts, read 26,641,840 times
Reputation: 19293
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollTide1703 View Post
Like I said, show me where it makes any logical sense. I am not talking about customs. Sorry, but customs are dumb. Doing something because people before us did it is not a logical reason to do something. Doing it because other countries do it is also not a logical reason to do so. Forcibly making people do it, or face punishment, is also not logical. I am not going on my feelings here. My personal feeling, is that a lot of them are doing it for attention, and a lot of them are doing it because they want to bring light to what they see as an injustice. There are probably some doing it for reasons other than those as well. Either way, constantly talking about it and putting their faces on the news all the time just makes it grow. Want it to stop? Stop talking about it, stop reporting on it, stop showing it on tv, etc.



Again, I have no problem with that. This country allows people to disagree. My problem lies with people who try and forcibly make people sit down and shut up, simply because they disagree. That is NOT what this country should be about. As long as they are going about it peacefully, and not hurting anyone, why do you even care?



Like I said, you can use Kaep all you want. You can't, however, use him to say every player who kneels thinks the same way he does. You can't use that broad brush approach when it comes to people and why they do things.

ok then lets do this, lets rip up the american flag completely, and never fly it again anywhere. we can also eliminate the national anthem everywhere as well, just rear up the music and never play it again anywhere.



and then lets the the first amendment to extend to everyone in the halls of power. no longer can employers tell employees when they can and cannot say or do while at work. say anything you want, you cant be disciplined for it. wear what ever t shirt with what ever saying you want, no one can discipline you for it regardless of how offensive the printing is.



in fact lets get rid of all laws completely. you want to go out and kill someone just ot see them die? its no longer illegal to do that. you want to rob your local bank? get yourself a gun and go for it, you might have to stand in line though, as there will probably be 20 others that want to rob the bank in front of you.


would that do it for you?
 
Old 05-25-2018, 04:02 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
8,720 posts, read 6,227,021 times
Reputation: 8727
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Awesome.

It only takes a quick look around at a stadium concourse, sports bar or Superbowl party to see that you are in the minority.

I feel confident saying a majority of fans only stop what the are doing and stand respectfully if they are physically at the stadium at their seats when the Anthem is played. Probably a fair number of those same fans are griping about the players "disrespect" by quietly kneeling.

Something to think about anyway. Perhaps we need to be looking in the mirror more and pointing fingers less.
There's a huge difference between going about your business at a concession stand or whatever and kneeling on the field for the express purpose of shouting silently to the world how evil you believe our law enforcement and our nation (represented by the flag and our anthem) to be.

But you knew that, so it's hard to understand where this post even comes from, given that you started strong in the thread.
 
Old 05-25-2018, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
21,882 posts, read 23,289,876 times
Reputation: 37315
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
There's a huge difference between going about your business at a concession stand or whatever and kneeling on the field for the express purpose of shouting silently to the world how evil you believe our law enforcement and our nation (represented by the flag and our anthem) to be.

But you knew that, so it's hard to understand where this post even comes from, given that you started strong in the thread.
Really? You think joking around with your buds while waiting in line for beer and nachos , or plopping a 2nd helping of potato salad on your flag-emblazoned paper plate during the N.A. is respectful behavior? Try that on a military base if you're unsure.


Frankly I have mixed feelings on the issue but I won't be a hypocrite. If you are demanding that players on the field are showing their respect in a specific way, you should be putting your money where your mouth is. I'd expect you all ought to be calling attention to the concession stand attendants, and ticket takers as well since they are also "on the job".
Agree or disagree, at least those kneeling are paying attention.

That said, I still agree that employers have the right to curb or disallow certain behaviors from their employees while they are at work and representing their brand if the employers feel the behavior is detrimental to their business.

Frankly I've always found it annoying when the cameras show folks (fans, coaches and players) chewing gum during it.

Last edited by maciesmom; 05-25-2018 at 04:59 PM..
 
Old 05-25-2018, 04:55 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
8,720 posts, read 6,227,021 times
Reputation: 8727
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Really? You think joking around with your buds while waiting in line for beer and nachos during the N.A. is respectful behavior? Try that on a military base if you're unsure.


Frankly I have mixed feelings on the issue but I won't be a hypocrite. If you are demanding that players on the field are showing their respect in a specific way, you should be putting your money where your mouth is. I'd expect you all ought to be calling attention to the concession stand attendants, and ticket takers as well since they are also "on the job".
Agree or disagree, at least those kneeling are paying attention.

Frankly I've always found it annoying when the cameras show folks (fans, coaches and players) chewing gum during it.
Ridiculous....quite simply. Incredible is perhaps a better word.
 
Old 05-25-2018, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
21,882 posts, read 23,289,876 times
Reputation: 37315
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Ridiculous....quite simply. Incredible is perhaps a better word.
You are free to have your opinion.

God bless America.
 
Old 05-25-2018, 05:23 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,305 posts, read 41,303,394 times
Reputation: 30123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
Listening to the head of the NFLPA this morning, he is interpreting the new rule as the owners have the power to make individual team policies regarding going out for the anthem or not. Of course if they go out the team is fined if one player protests.
On the other hand an owner can order everyone to remain off the field depriving those who want to stand from not doing so.
This is not necessarily going to be an individual players choice.
Also clarification is needed on weather things like raising a fist or locking arms is a violation of the policy.

I read one article that claimed despite prior reports, the owners never voted on the issue one way or another. I spent many happy Sundays out on back roads on a motorcycle and hardly saw an NFL game for years, I'm due for some more back road wandering.
 
Old 05-25-2018, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA and Washington, DC
23,738 posts, read 33,648,981 times
Reputation: 32561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
As a black veteran, the kneeling is highly disrespectful and a largely empty gesture. We should be protesting black on black violence and fatherless homes instead.

It’s is the equivalent of a middle finger being raised on national television as service-members inside the stadium stand and salute
As the son of two black veterans, my parents would say that the years they served was for the right for their son to protest to help stop a problem that overwhelming affects the black community all three of us are a part of. They think the lives of sons, fathers, and brothers are more important than giving respect to a piece of cloth. I think we can try to do something about police brutality, black on black violence, AND fatherless homes at the SAME time. I know I do everyday.
 
Old 05-26-2018, 05:30 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,933 posts, read 4,010,855 times
Reputation: 4162
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter View Post
As the son of two black veterans, my parents would say that the years they served was for the right for their son to protest to help stop a problem that overwhelming affects the black community all three of us are a part of. They think the lives of sons, fathers, and brothers are more important than giving respect to a piece of cloth. I think we can try to do something about police brutality, black on black violence, AND fatherless homes at the SAME time. I know I do everyday.
And u have the right start.... you are being part of the Solution, not part of the problem.

As for respect, the stars and stripes are part and symbol of the greatest nation on earth. Even though we are not a perfect nation, we are still pretty awesome. And while professional sports exist in other nations, the games in the USA are as much a part of our culture and entertainment for some of us as apple pie and fireworks. While many of us would never ever choose to do something to disprespect the flag in any way, we must remember that without freedom, there might be no NFL games on Sunday.
 
Old 05-26-2018, 06:43 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,700 posts, read 10,757,371 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post

If you are demanding that players on the field are showing their respect in a specific way, you should be putting your money where your mouth is.
For many people the flag or anthem thing is not the issue.

The issue is that people - who work and pay taxes - set aside three hours of special time for a special event, professional football, because, among other things, it is a beautiful microcosm of the human condition, artistically portrayed by great athletes who deserve every penny of what we contribute to them.

That's what we thought the deal was.

What we've received instead over the past couple of years is cheap political theater, a disgusting and sickening waste of human energy. If we want that, we can turn on any of our fake news channels any time of day, any day of the week, any number of hours.

But now there is no way to tune it out because, like a noxious gas, it has pervaded every aspect of the transmission of what used to be that special event.

That is a deal-breaker and the only solution is total separation.

Perhaps a bit of hyperbole above; nonetheless, perceive or don't perceive, agree or don't disagree, for many that is what the issue is.

Last edited by bale002; 05-26-2018 at 07:11 AM..
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