Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have ESPN on as background noise at work and they were discussing Richard Sherman's "the Seahawks lost their way" comments. On the heals of that they discussed if Pete Carroll's Seahawks have under achieved.
It got me to thinking of teams on an "era" level that have indeed overachieved. I thought that would make for some decent late summer discussion as we eagerly await the last few weeks before football returns. Since the Seahawks are the team that spawned this conversation, let's give them a look:
Pete Carroll era: 2010-present
High point: 2013 season: SB XLVIII Champions, 43-8 over Broncos
Low point: 2011 season: 7-9 finish, missed playoffs (2010 was also a 7-9 finish but the Seahawks made the playoffs as division champs and defeated the defending champion Saints in the Wild Card round of the playoffs.)
Most disappointing moment: SB XLIX loss, 28-24 to Patriots. Russell Wilson's interception sealed the win for the Patriots and due to time remaining in the game has become the defining play of that game.
Notes:
In 8 seasons under Pete Carroll the Seahawks have twice been NFC Champions.
In 6 of 8 seasons they have made the playoffs, winning at least 1 playoff game in each of those 6 seasons.
Additional Context:
It isn't like the Seahawks have been without competition in the Pete Carroll era. During this time the 49ers have finished 13-3 (2011), 11-4-1 and NFC Champs (2012) and 12-4 (2013). The Cardinals have also had a couple solid years finishes of 10-6 (2013), 11-5 (2014), and 13-3 (2015).
My take:
I don't think anyone can fairly consider this era of Seahawks teams to be under achievers. It's hard to stay on top in the NFL. Sure, the Seahawks fielded a spectacular defense during this era, and an offense that was probably under rated for part of the era, but many good teams in the NFL accomplish less. Speculation that Carroll is on the hot seat may prove true, but even if the Seahawks have a disappointing 2018 and part ways with him, I still don't think the Pete Carroll era can accurately be considered under achieving. Anytime you can look back on a span of years and say you've accounted for 9 out of a franchise's 16 playoff wins, 2 of the franchise's 3 conference championships, and the franchise's sole Super Bowl win, it's fair to say this team accomplished a lot. More, in fact, than most teams in the same span of time.
Let's take a look at another team, the San Diego Chargers in the Ladainian Tomlinson years. It's important to note that while individual statistics and achievements may be a part of this discussion, I am discussing overall team performance using one player/coach/GM as the defining feature of the era.
Ladainian Tomlinson era: 2001-2009
High point: 2007 season: 11-5 record and appearance in the AFCCG, a 21-12 loss to the undefeated Patriots.
Low point: 2003 season: 4-12 record
Most disappointing moment(s):
Divisional Round loss, 2006 season. A 14-2 regular season finish was the best in franchise history and earned the Chargers the #1 playoff seed. Despite this they were upset by the Patriots, 24-21.
Divisional Round loss, 2009 season. A 13-3 regular season finish was the franchise's second best regular season and earned them the #2 playoff seed behind the 14-2 Colts. It's worth noting this era of Chargers teams enjoyed immense success against this era of Manning's Colts teams, so the potential heavy weight battle @ Indianapolis didn't scare Chargers fans much. Instead they were upset by a Jets team that had finished the regular season 9-7 under rookie QB Mark Sanchez.
Notes:
The Tomlinson era spanned a few QBs, from Doug Flutie to Drew Brees before eventually settling on Phil Rivers in 2006.
The Tomlinson era spanned 3 head coaches: Mike Riley (2001), Marty Schottenheimer (2002-2006) and Norv Turner (2007-2009).
The Chargers reached the playoffs in 5 of 9 seasons during this span. 3 of 11 of the franchise's post season wins came during this era.
Additional context:
The first portion of the Tomlinson era the Chargers had some competition in the AFC West. The Raiders went 10-6 (2001) and 11-5 and AFC Champs (2002) before reporting to the league's basement for a period of ineptitude that would last until 2016. The Chiefs threw in a couple of playoff appearances with a 13-3 finish in 2003 and 9-7 in 2006. They also had a non-playoff 10-6 finish in 2005. The Broncos had playoff finishes of 10-6 (2003), 10-6 (2004) and 13-3 (2005). Pretty much beginning in 2006-2009 the AFC West belonged to the Chargers.
My take:
This era of Chargers teams definitely under achieved. Especially if you narrow the focus down to the Phil Rivers portion of it (2006-2009). This was a team that was loaded on defense, and saw Tomlinson post one of the single best seasons by a RB in the history of the game (2006: 1,815 yards, 28 TDs on 348 carries; 508 receiving yards and TDs on 56 catches; completing 2/3 pass attempts for 20 yards and 2 TDs). Considering how loaded the roster was on both sides of the ball it's tough to look at the team's single AFCCG appearance, a game they lost to a better team, and conclude they didn't under achieve. Especially when you consider many of their playoff losses came against lesser teams and included breakdowns in discipline, huge mental mistakes, and inexplicable misses on a few FG attempts. The book isn't complete on Phil Rivers yet and when it is we can re-write this using him as the defining player for the franchise. For the Tomlinson era Chargers, they under achieved.
Let the debate begin. Comment on these teams or add your own and let's see if we can pass the time until we have 2018 football to talk about!
Last edited by iknowftbll; 07-17-2018 at 11:20 AM..
Green Bay Packers with Aaron Rodgers. Unlike the AFC that has had three dominant teams (techinically four if we consider Peyton with the Colts and Broncos) over the last 18 years or so the NFC has not had a consistent power house team for the majority of Aaron's tenure with the Packers. Maybe the Seahawks would be the one team.
Big Ben- 3 super bowl appearances
Tom Brady- 8 super bowl appearances
Peyton Manning- 2 super bowl appearances with the Colts and 2 with the Broncos
Aaron Rodgers- only 1 super bowl appearance, same as Drew Brees.
Rodgers has been considered by many the best QB in the league over the last 10 years or so. At worst he's consistently been in everyone's top three I am sure. But he hasn't had the same post season success one would expect from a QB of his level. He got the one super bowl early but besides that season, his career has probably looked similar to Peyton's first 8-10 years in the league.
Green Bay Packers with Aaron Rodgers. Unlike the AFC that has had three dominant teams (techinically four if we consider Peyton with the Colts and Broncos) over the last 18 years or so the NFC has not had a consistent power house team for the majority of Aaron's tenure with the Packers. Maybe the Seahawks would be the one team.
Big Ben- 3 super bowl appearances
Tom Brady- 8 super bowl appearances
Peyton Manning- 2 super bowl appearances with the Colts and 2 with the Broncos
Aaron Rodgers- only 1 super bowl appearance, same as Drew Brees.
Rodgers has been considered by many the best QB in the league over the last 10 years or so. At worst he's consistently been in everyone's top three I am sure. But he hasn't had the same post season success one would expect from a QB of his level. He got the one super bowl early but besides that season, his career has probably looked similar to Peyton's first 8-10 years in the league.
I agree and I think you could just piggy back that on to the Brett Favre years...
Combined 3 SB appearances and only 2 victories from 2 QB's that will likely end up on the top 10 all time list certainly seems like under achieving when you compare to the 3 Qb's above...
As much as I'm a loyal Packer fan, frustrating they haven't gone to the SB more. They should have gone after 2014 season, major coaching failure in NFC championship game. The mistakes in the game plus I've always wanted a Pats Pack SB. Would have been perfect, they already beat the Patriots during the season!
McCarthy and loyalty to coaches, slow to change, weak defenses last few years. Capers should have been gone a few years ago. They haven't done Rodgers any favors (or Favre either) with their team building, players around them. I'm not one to bash McCarthy but with changes this year, if Rodgers plays 16 games and they miss the playoffs, he's probably gone.
I can only imagine what kind of stats Herman Moore could roll up if he played in today's passing game. Until Calvin Johnson came along, Moore was without a doubt the best that the Lions ever had regarding wide receivers IMHO. And actually, I remember the game that started his decline. Lions were playing the Seahawks in the home opener and Moore tore his knee up, missed a couple months IIRC. From that point forward, he was never the same. By 2001 he was a backup on the NY Giants and then that was it. Sad.
And Barry Sanders? One of the 5 best running backs in NFL history. I love to read about all things NFL, one of these days I'd like to get the book on Sanders--"Now You See Me."
Bondurant is right. I'd have to do some digging regarding free agent signings through that stretch but Detroit was lacking in defense, no doubt.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
