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Old 11-11-2018, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
12,473 posts, read 4,216,580 times
Reputation: 9780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Alex Smith wouldn't make the HOF even if he did win a Super Bowl.....

He doesn't even have "borderline" HOF statistics when he is compared to his peers in THIS era. The fact that his stats compare favorably to players whose careers were over 30 years ago just proves that point....

In the pass happy NFL of this era, statistically Smith has been in the lower half of the league....

33K yards, 192 TD's and 99 interceptions in a 13 year career????

Drew Bledsoe whose career ended 2 years after Smith's began played in the same number of seasons

44k yards, 250 TD's and 200 Int's

Drew was also 3-3 in the playoffs and led his team to a Super Bowl compared to Smith who was 2-5 in the playoffs and never led a team to a Super Bowl.

I loved Drew but I don't think he'll ever sniff the HOF and neither will Smith.....

HOF is supposed to be for the best of the best...when exactly was Smith ever considered the "best of the best"??

Drew Bledsoe had a couple of seasons early in his career when he was considered a top 5 QB in the NFL....

Smith has NEVER been considered a top 5 QB in the in the NFL....and even he ended up winning a SB that would not change
Not disagreeing with you. But if Smith plays 3 more seasons at a reasonably high level his stats will be right around where Bledsoe's were, and with a lot less interceptions. Good QB, not a HOF guy.

 
Old 11-11-2018, 06:25 AM
 
1,172 posts, read 478,180 times
Reputation: 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Roll your eyes all you want. I've been watching football a long time, and QB's don't get into the HOF unless they are all time greats, or very good QB's who have won super bowls. Smith is neither at this time.
As for the rest of your list....
Some of those guys were before my time so I won't comment. But these guys belong in:

Sanders
Butkus (before my time, but I know he was great)
Sayers (same thing - I've seen the films)
Campbell -- maybe the easiest call on this board.
Dickerson
Moon
Selmon
Fouts - borderline - he had a great 4 year stretch which got him in
Thomas
Largent
Everyone on Ghengiss list is a no-brainer HoFer; Olson, Jones, Houston, and Wilson were among the best ever at their positions.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 08:03 AM
 
16,522 posts, read 20,969,751 times
Reputation: 47952
Quote:
Originally Posted by bachslunch View Post
Everyone on Ghengis’s list is a no-brainer HoFer; Olson, Jones, Houston, and Wilson were among the best ever at their positions.
They sure were!

Back in 2011, NFL Films came up with a great documentary called "Top 100 Players In NFL History." It was a 10 part series that was broadcast on the NFL Network around the halfway point of the NFL season and was discussed at length on this forum. The polling was done by NFL writers, current and former NFL General Managers, retired NFL coaches , and other noted NFL execs.

Deacon Jones-#15
Merlin Olsen-#27

Ken Houston should be on that list. Why?
12 time pro bowler
2 time 1st team all pro
10 time 2nd team all pro 1st ballot NFL HOFer

Larry Wilson should be on there as well.
8 time pro bowler
5 time 1st team all pro
1st ballot NFL HOFer

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 11-11-2018 at 08:15 AM..
 
Old 11-11-2018, 09:54 AM
 
1,172 posts, read 478,180 times
Reputation: 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H View Post
They sure were!

Back in 2011, NFL Films came up with a great documentary called "Top 100 Players In NFL History." It was a 10 part series that was broadcast on the NFL Network around the halfway point of the NFL season and was discussed at length on this forum. The polling was done by NFL writers, current and former NFL General Managers, retired NFL coaches , and other noted NFL execs.

Deacon Jones-#15
Merlin Olsen-#27

Ken Houston should be on that list. Why?
12 time pro bowler
2 time 1st team all pro
10 time 2nd team all pro 1st ballot NFL HOFer

Larry Wilson should be on there as well.
8 time pro bowler
5 time 1st team all pro
1st ballot NFL HOFer
All good points. Postseason honors for all put them in elite status. Note that I count non-AP 1st teams except Sporting News pre-1980 below:

Deacon Jones (6/8/60s)
Merlin Olson (7/14/60s70s)
Larry Wilson (6/8/60s70s)
Ken Houston (6/12/70s)
 
Old 11-11-2018, 09:54 AM
 
4,980 posts, read 11,046,411 times
Reputation: 11813
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Not disagreeing with you. But if Smith plays 3 more seasons at a reasonably high level his stats will be right around where Bledsoe's were, and with a lot less interceptions. Good QB, not a HOF guy.
His stats would be right around where Bledsoe's were.....with 3 more seasons to get there....in an era where passing numbers have exploded around him...

Interestingly both Bledsoe and Smith were number 1 overall selections but my own bias is that Bledsoe's career was better than Smith's.....but yeah neither is HOF worthy
 
Old 11-11-2018, 12:23 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
2,270 posts, read 879,068 times
Reputation: 12449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
other unworthy HOFers because of no Super Bowl appearances...

Barry Sanders
Dick Butkus
Deacon Jones
Merlin Olsen
Gale Sayers
Earl Campbell
Ken Houston
Eric Dickerson
Larry Wilson
Warren Moon
Lee Roy Selmon
Dan Fouts
Derrick Thomas
Steve Largent

also oh-fer in Super Bowl wins; Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino are all in the HOF and need to be removed
Precisely.

Completely aside from Alex Smith, the championship-as-HoF-litmus-test is just plain dumb (to put it more politely than the idea really warrants). It's as dumb as saying that Theismann and McMahon and Peyton's little brother all deserve the Hall just because of their rings.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
4,847 posts, read 6,359,735 times
Reputation: 5797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Precisely.

Completely aside from Alex Smith, the championship-as-HoF-litmus-test is just plain dumb (to put it more politely than the idea really warrants). It's as dumb as saying that Theismann and McMahon and Peyton's little brother all deserve the Hall just because of their rings.
Eli, however, will be inducted for precisely that.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 02:39 PM
 
929 posts, read 296,392 times
Reputation: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleh View Post
way too much credit is given for a QB that is lucky enough to have a team carry them thru a SB

examples:
Mark Rypien
Doug Williams
Bob Griese
Jim Mcmahon
Joe Theismann
these guys were on a team that won a SB despite them, not because of them.
Meh- a bit harsh on some of these guys. I would say Griese was a dam good quarterback in his era even with the great talent around him in the early-mid 70s. Injuries made him ineffective at the back end of his career. I think he was better than Terry Bradshaw from the same era, as Bradshaw struggled much of the first half of his career, something that is not known by many. Now as we got late into the 70's, Bradshaw thrived and was able to put together some very good seasons, while Griese's skills deteriorated.

Mark Rypien had a great season and prior to that for several years, was pretty decent. He was a big part of the Redskins's success in his Super Bowl season of 1991-92. Great career? No. But I wouldn't say the Redskins won it all in 1991 despite of him. After 91-92, Rypien's career took a nosedive.

McMahon? Good quarterback that could start for my team any day. Yes the famed 46 defense was the overwhelming reason the Bears of 85 perhaps the greatest team of all-time. But they also didn't win in spite of McMahon. The guy could play.

Griese is the only Hall-of-Famer among that list. None of the others belong in the Hall-of-Fame. But I wouldn't say their teams won championships in spite of them.
 
Old 11-11-2018, 06:14 PM
 
1,812 posts, read 1,168,912 times
Reputation: 1887
When they build the check down wing Alex will be the first one inducted. Appreciated every thing he did for my Chiefs, including tutoring Patrick Mahomes for a season. There is a very good reason the Chiefs traded him to the Skins when they did. Alex is a very good quarterback but not a great quarterback. Not a hall of fame quarterback.
 
Old 11-12-2018, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,221,968 times
Reputation: 4582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
other unworthy HOFers because of no Super Bowl appearances...

Barry Sanders
Dick Butkus
Deacon Jones
Merlin Olsen
Gale Sayers
Earl Campbell
Ken Houston
Eric Dickerson
Larry Wilson
Warren Moon
Lee Roy Selmon
Dan Fouts
Derrick Thomas
Steve Largent

also oh-fer in Super Bowl wins; Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino are all in the HOF and need to be removed
WHAT!#@#$#

You left off Jim Brown, he never won a Super Bowl..
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