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Old 01-22-2019, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Amelia Island
2,977 posts, read 3,969,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
He opted to kick the tying field goal on 2nd down, from the 16, with 11 seconds left. He played not to lose. They had enough time to run one play, maybe two, and take shots at the endzone. No timeouts at that point, but you scheme it for direct shots in the endzone...

Obviously could have been picked or some other disaster, but at least you're not playing not to lose. You're playing to win. The Chiefs had the momentum and had outscored the Patriots 28-17 in the second half. You're at home. You're well within scoring position. If you have an incomplete on 2nd down, depending on if there's time for another play, then you kick the field goal...

But kicking the field goal on 2nd down with 11 seconds left from the 16 sounds like timid coaching to me, not trusting an offense that was the best in The League this year and was having it's way with NE in the 2nd half...

So now Reid is 1-5 in the conference championship game and for all of his greatness, clock mismanagement and the propensity to face plant in the biggest games are the hallmarks of his career...

As a Pat's fan I am glad you guys did not have any more time.............you flamed us as far as putting up points in the second half and if you had more time, quite possibly Mahones could have scored again on that final drive.


As far as going for it with 11 seconds left, the Pat's tried to seal another field goal before the end of the fist half against the Chargers and while they did complete the pass and run it out they did not have forward momentum and the clock ran out much to Brady's dismay.


You guys (KC) played great, you just kicked in a little to late (by minutes unfortunately).
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
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Well, Chiefs fired the DC Sutton today, Reid isn't going to get fired so the guy that let Brady & Pats march down the field does.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg/Virginia Beach, VA
10,706 posts, read 11,116,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susancruzs View Post
Well, Chiefs fired the DC Sutton today, Reid isn't going to get fired so the guy that let Brady & Pats march down the field does.
If they get a good DC and maybe restock some of the shelves in that unit they just may be a heavy weight contender in 2019. They get the right DC and it may be enough to compensate for Reid's mandatory post-season coaching letdowns!


PS: The Broncos fan in me hopes they miss wide right on Suttons replacement and their defense is so bad in 2019 the league ranks them 33rd in the league!
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Old 01-22-2019, 04:10 PM
 
4,988 posts, read 11,072,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Oh there is no doubt he has had a terrible history of clock management. And like everyone else I was hoping they would not score too quickly. But that wasn't on Andy at the end of the game. They ran the clock all the way down before snapping the ball and scored a TD. What exactly was he supposed to do, take a knee, burn some clock and HOPE they still score? I mean it's not like the game was tied, they were losing and the first order of business was to get in the end zone..
I agree with this, I don't think Reid should take grief for "scoring too soon", fine if you are playing Madden but as you stated if you get too cute trying to run out the clock AND score, you might just run out the clock and NOT score....

When the Pats bled the clock and kicked a game winning FG with no time in the regular season matchup the score was tied, the disaster scenario there was OT not a loss...

I do think Romo was right about the last plays of OT, your defense is obviously gassed, you have the timeouts, what are you saving them for???

The team across from you has shown that it is possible to make a game saving stop at the goal line....heck the Chiefs had stopped the Pats on 4th and 1 earlier in the game.....

I know it wasn't 4th down yet but it sure seemed like the Chiefs including Reid just threw in the towel at the end there.

Reid is easy to pick on due to his post season failures but he really is a great coach, the second half adjustments were phenomenal. If he can get the D turned around this team will be a juggernaut.

My last complaint on Reid though, don't hold a press conference the next day and whine about penalties....especially the offsides which he even admits was called correctly but he whined that Ford could have been "given a warning" and yes the roughing call on Brady was lame, but then you should also complain about the illegal pick play that got you a TD or the clear PI/holding going on all game by both teams that was barely called. Penalties were a wash in this game and the booth reviews were all correct....

For all of Belichick's failings, and he has had some spectacular ones like benching Butler for the SB last year which likely cost them that game, I have never seen Bill go to the podium and blame the refs....he will always put the blame on himself first.....

Reid has been around almost as long as Bill but he needs to learn that lesson
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:10 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,864,691 times
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This might not be a popular opion but IMO Reid is a HOF coach. The guys had been an absolute genius on the offensive side of the ball. I think only a couple head coaches are in the HOF who have not won a super bowl. Levy who went to four and I’m not sure who else. Reid has only been to one which might not seem like a strong enough resume. But at this point I would put him in even if he had zero appearances.
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Fredericksburg/Virginia Beach, VA
10,706 posts, read 11,116,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
This might not be a popular opion but IMO Reid is a HOF coach. The guys had been an absolute genius on the offensive side of the ball. I think only a couple head coaches are in the HOF who have not won a super bowl. Levy who went to four and I’m not sure who else. Reid has only been to one which might not seem like a strong enough resume. But at this point I would put him in even if he had zero appearances.




Seems like you're contradicting yourself. Am I reading you wrong?
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:17 AM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,864,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post



Seems like you're contradicting yourself. Am I reading you wrong?
Yes you are reading me wrong. I’m saying super bowl appearances and wins are not the end all be all for coaches. Just like they aren’t for players. Reid’s resume outside of the playoffs is hard to beat. From personnel decisions, winning percentage, total wins, and just a general QB guruness to him. His playoff resume isn’t great with a losing record but at the same time he’s coached in 5 conference championship games. Not bad. He has all the above to his name already and can add more. And with Mahomes, who Andy Reid is 100% responsible for, chances seem good that he will.
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Old 01-23-2019, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,847,551 times
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Reid has six conference championship appearances...

He's 1-5 in those games and that will be weighed when his candidacy comes up if he doesn't improve on it. But I believe he's a HOF coach as well. If we look back at the last 20 years, after Belichick he is clearly in that next tier of great coaches with Carroll, Payton, McCarthy, Tomlin, Dungy...

Depending on when he retires, he isn't getting in before any of those guys without a ring:

•Dungy was .668 in the regular season, .474 (9-10) in the postseason, 1-2 in the conference championship and 1-0 in the Super Bowl, 6x division champion (13 years)...
•Tomlin is .654 in the regular season, .533 in the postseason (8-7), 2-1 in the AFC Championship, 1-1 in the Super Bowl, 6x division champ (12 yrs)...
•McCarthy is .618 in the regular season, .556 in the postseason (10-8), 1-3 in the NFC Championship, 1-0 in the Super Bowl, 6x division champ (13 yrs)...
•Payton is .615 in the regular seaon, .571 in the postseason (8-6), 1-2 in the NFC Championship, 1-0 in the Super Bowl, 5x division champion (12 yrs)...
•Carroll is .589 in the regular season, .556 in the postseason (10-8), 2-0 in the NFC Championship, 1-1 in the Super Bowl, 5x division champion (13 yrs)...

Carroll, Payton, and Reid are locks to me. Reid is .611 in the regular season, which puts him only 4th of these 5 coaches; .472 in the postseason (12-14), which is the worst of these coaches; worst winning percentage in conference title games (he's coached 7 more years than any of these guys so it's not relevant at the moment to say he's been to more conference title games); is the only coach of this group without a Super Bowl victory; and has won his division in 9 of his 20 seasons, a damn good 45% percentage, but still only 4th of these coaches for ratio of division titles to seasons coached...

He's not first in anything amongst the group, so yes, his candidacy will always be weighed against his peers. He is Top 5 of the past two decades, and I'm a big Reid supporter. He clearly merits HOF consideration, but I don't think he's better than Carroll, and he and Payton are kinda on the same platform. He isn't great against the greatest coaches of his era...
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:48 PM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,864,691 times
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I still like Reid over most all those guys you have listed.

The biggest difference between Andy Reid and the 5 Head Coaches you have listed is the other 5 had most all of their success come with one Future HOF QB. Tomlin, McCarthy and Payton fall under that category specifically. Dungy and Carrol have had some success outside of Wilson and Peyton Manning. Reid had success with McNabb, Vick, Smith and now Mahomes. Multiple guys. And although all four were very good to great QBs under Reid there might be just one future HOFer in the group. Pretty much whomever Reid handpicks as his QB, you can count on them playing at an above average level.

Reid has longevity on his side as well. He's been coaching at a high level for 20 seasons. He's taken his team to the playoffs in 70% of his seasons as a head coach. Only Tony Dungy has a higher percentage at 84%. And with Reid having coached 7 or 8 more seasons than the other coaches you would expect him to have a lower percentage than the other coaches just based on the fact that things tend to even out over time. But so far this isn't the case for Reid.

How successful will McCarthy, Payton and Tomlin be when they are not coaching Rodgers, Big Ben and Brees respectively? We will find out pretty soon.

Also, I can't imagine McCarthy ever coming close to getting in even with his one ring. And I would expect him to get in over Tomlin and Payton as well.
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Old 01-23-2019, 02:43 PM
 
4,988 posts, read 11,072,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Reid has six conference championship appearances...

He's 1-5 in those games and that will be weighed when his candidacy comes up if he doesn't improve on it. But I believe he's a HOF coach as well. If we look back at the last 20 years, after Belichick he is clearly in that next tier of great coaches with Carroll, Payton, McCarthy, Tomlin, Dungy...

Depending on when he retires, he isn't getting in before any of those guys without a ring:

•Dungy was .668 in the regular season, .474 (9-10) in the postseason, 1-2 in the conference championship and 1-0 in the Super Bowl, 6x division champion (13 years)...
•Tomlin is .654 in the regular season, .533 in the postseason (8-7), 2-1 in the AFC Championship, 1-1 in the Super Bowl, 6x division champ (12 yrs)...
•McCarthy is .618 in the regular season, .556 in the postseason (10-8), 1-3 in the NFC Championship, 1-0 in the Super Bowl, 6x division champ (13 yrs)...
•Payton is .615 in the regular seaon, .571 in the postseason (8-6), 1-2 in the NFC Championship, 1-0 in the Super Bowl, 5x division champion (12 yrs)...
•Carroll is .589 in the regular season, .556 in the postseason (10-8), 2-0 in the NFC Championship, 1-1 in the Super Bowl, 5x division champion (13 yrs)...

Carroll, Payton, and Reid are locks to me. Reid is .611 in the regular season, which puts him only 4th of these 5 coaches; .472 in the postseason (12-14), which is the worst of these coaches; worst winning percentage in conference title games (he's coached 7 more years than any of these guys so it's not relevant at the moment to say he's been to more conference title games); is the only coach of this group without a Super Bowl victory; and has won his division in 9 of his 20 seasons, a damn good 45% percentage, but still only 4th of these coaches for ratio of division titles to seasons coached...

He's not first in anything amongst the group, so yes, his candidacy will always be weighed against his peers. He is Top 5 of the past two decades, and I'm a big Reid supporter. He clearly merits HOF consideration, but I don't think he's better than Carroll, and he and Payton are kinda on the same platform. He isn't great against the greatest coaches of his era...
There are only 24 coaches in the HOF dating back to the 1920's....

Dungy is already in the HOF by the way....

Reid is at best the 3rd best coach of this era certainly behind Belichick by a few miles and I would put Carroll ahead as well...

As things currently stand I don't think he has a prayer of making the HOF, Levy got in but he made it to 4 straight Super Bowls.

Unless Reid wins 1 or more Super Bowls he ain't getting into the HOF and I believe for coaches Super Bowl appearances and wins are absolutely necessary.

Honestly probably a moot argument because I can't imagine KC not winning 1 or more SB's with Mahomes, that kid is ridiculous and if Reid gets a SB win then I think he is a lock....probably even an appearance or two more even if losses a la Levy...

But he absolutely needs the Super Bowls, more than his 1 current appearance, to get into Canton....
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