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Old 01-24-2019, 08:34 PM
 
16,527 posts, read 20,975,025 times
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Today's NFL talking heads are all quite familiar with Brian Urlacher, and Mike Singletary, and Dick Butkus. But the guy who IMO was as good as all of them and you rarely hear about him is Bill George. I'd have to take a look at the all pro stats and the pro bowl stats of the other three but Bill George stacks up right along with them. He played 14 seasons with the Chicago Bears and finished his career as a L.A. Ram in 1966. He was an 8 time pro bowler and an 8 time all-pro. Butkus got miles of print with his demeanor and the way he went after people, and rightly so. Singletary, when I think of him, I always think of that NFL Films clip of Singletary yelling at the opposition--"Hey Baby, we're gonna be here all day. I like that kind of party. I like that kind of party!"


George isn't on NFL Films and didn't snarl and spit at the other team (well, he could have) but Bill George popularized the middle linebacker position. It's too bad he didn't make NFL Films Top 100 players in NFL history, which was broadcast on the NFL Network in 2011. I believe he should be in there. He was easily the best football player to come out of Wake Forest University.
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:26 PM
 
Location: God's Country
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For several years, the AP would pick Bill George, Sam Huff, And Joe Schmidt to their All-Pro first team. Problem with that is that they were all middle linebackers, which of course did a disservice to the outstanding outside linebackers of the day. (Defensive fronts were 4-3.)


I always thought that it was because those three were so great, the writers didn't want to leave any one of them off 1st team.


Chuck Bednarik and Ray Nitschke would be 2nd team, but again, both played MLB.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:49 PM
 
1,177 posts, read 478,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I grew up playing corner and heard about Night Train Lane. Would you consider him the greatest corner of all time?
Lane and Willie Brown are arguably the best bump and run style CBs.

Jim Johnson and Deion Sanders are the two best cover owners.
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Old 01-27-2019, 05:26 PM
 
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Unless the younger fans who post on this forum are from Buffalo, the name Cookie Gilchrist doesn't mean squat to them For that matter, probably the Generation X and Y fans as well. But people who went to Bills games in the early 60's will tell you he just played in the wrong era.

He didn't go to college. Paul Brown of the Cleveland Brown's signed him at 18 years old but the NFL put the kibosh to the deal because of his age. So from there Cookie went to play in Canada to the Ontario Rugby Football Union ( a form of minor leagues for Canadian players) and played for the Sarnia Imperials, then the Kitchener Dutchmans. Then in 1956 he played in the Canadian Football league for several teams; Hamilton, Saskatchewan, and the Toronto Argonauts. In his day he was the best running back the CFL had ever seen.

He was outspoken, took no crap from anyone. He refused entry in the CFL Hall Of fame because of their poor treatment to African American players. Joining the Buffalo Bills in 1962 he became the AFL's first 1000 yard rusher. He played three seasons for Buffalo, one season for Miami, and two seasons in Denver. A lot of former AFL players would tell you he could stand toe to toe with Jim Brown. Check out the the Showtime Channel 5 part series--"Full Color Football-the History Of The American Football League". In fact, in that documentary Brown mentioned that " Cookie was a phenom--I had a lot of respect for his ability." Cookie wouldn't finesse you, he would just flat run you over. How controversial was he? When he first signed with the Bills he was also the placekicker and would get into arguments with management on why he should get two salaries because he was doing two different jobs. He torqued off head coach Lou Saban one time. He took himself out of a game because he argued with quarterback Jack Kemp that in order to win the game he needed the ball more. The plays came from the coach were all passes so he benched himself. Saban wanted to cut him on the spot-Gilchrist later apologized on tv, but after the 1964 season was over he was traded to Denver where he rushed for well over 900 yards with the worst club in the league.

But where I had the most respect for him was organizing a boycott regarding the 1964 AFL All Star Game in New Orleans. The African American players were treated like total garbage and he started up the petition to have all the AA players not play in the game-period. In a solid form of solidarity the other players went with them. The game was switched to Jeppeson Stadium in Houston maybe three days before the game was scheduled. The last 15 minutes of part two of "Full Color Football" tells the story, youtubes are available.

I've only talked bout Gilchrist briefly on the football forum here on City Data a couple of times years ago. And like I said, sadly few people on this forum are aware of him. They should, he was dominant.
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Old 01-28-2019, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,320 posts, read 21,890,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H View Post
Unless the younger fans who post on this forum are from Buffalo, the name Cookie Gilchrist doesn't mean squat to them For that matter, probably the Generation X and Y fans as well. But people who went to Bills games in the early 60's will tell you he just played in the wrong era.

He didn't go to college. Paul Brown of the Cleveland Brown's signed him at 18 years old but the NFL put the kibosh to the deal because of his age. So from there Cookie went to play in Canada to the Ontario Rugby Football Union ( a form of minor leagues for Canadian players) and played for the Sarnia Imperials, then the Kitchener Dutchmans. Then in 1956 he played in the Canadian Football league for several teams; Hamilton, Saskatchewan, and the Toronto Argonauts. In his day he was the best running back the CFL had ever seen.

He was outspoken, took no crap from anyone. He refused entry in the CFL Hall Of fame because of their poor treatment to African American players. Joining the Buffalo Bills in 1962 he became the AFL's first 1000 yard rusher. He played three seasons for Buffalo, one season for Miami, and two seasons in Denver. A lot of former AFL players would tell you he could stand toe to toe with Jim Brown. Check out the the Showtime Channel 5 part series--"Full Color Football-the History Of The American Football League". In fact, in that documentary Brown mentioned that " Cookie was a phenom--I had a lot of respect for his ability." Cookie wouldn't finesse you, he would just flat run you over. How controversial was he? When he first signed with the Bills he was also the placekicker and would get into arguments with management on why he should get two salaries because he was doing two different jobs. He torqued off head coach Lou Saban one time. He took himself out of a game because he argued with quarterback Jack Kemp that in order to win the game he needed the ball more. The plays came from the coach were all passes so he benched himself. Saban wanted to cut him on the spot-Gilchrist later apologized on tv, but after the 1964 season was over he was traded to Denver where he rushed for well over 900 yards with the worst club in the league.

But where I had the most respect for him was organizing a boycott regarding the 1964 AFL All Star Game in New Orleans. The African American players were treated like total garbage and he started up the petition to have all the AA players not play in the game-period. In a solid form of solidarity the other players went with them. The game was switched to Jeppeson Stadium in Houston maybe three days before the game was scheduled. The last 15 minutes of part two of "Full Color Football" tells the story, youtubes are available.

I've only talked bout Gilchrist briefly on the football forum here on City Data a couple of times years ago. And like I said, sadly few people on this forum are aware of him. They should, he was dominant.
Cookie Gilchrist is part of the answer to the following trivia question (although there seems to be some discrepancy into Gilchrist's actual number)...

What was the year, the number and the AFL, NFL, AL(MLB) and NL(MLB) MVPs that all wore the same number?
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Old 01-28-2019, 01:00 PM
 
Location: God's Country
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Recall Curt Gowdy saying that Cookie packed 265# and of course he could move.


Many DL at that time were no bigger than that.
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Old 01-28-2019, 02:15 PM
 
16,527 posts, read 20,975,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
Cookie Gilchrist is part of the answer to the following trivia question (although there seems to be some discrepancy into Gilchrist's actual number)...

What was the year, the number and the AFL, NFL, AL(MLB) and NL(MLB) MVPs that all wore the same number?
Yep, Cookie wore #34. Regarding #32, the others I knew--Elston Howard (Yankees), Sandy Koufax (Dodgers) and Jim Brown.We're talking 1963. Interesting story about Cookie's number change when he went to the Denver Broncos for a one on one swap for Billy Joe. Gilchrist was not happy about the trade but he knew his time in Buffalo was becoming short. When he came to Denver, at the press conference he announced that he "will be wearing number 2, just to let you know that I'm one better than Billy Joe." Joe wore #3 with Denver , and in fact was the 1963 AFL Rookie of the Year.

When Joe heard that, he announced when he got to Buffalo that he will wear #33 as he felt it was one better than #34. All in good fun, I guess. The interesting thing about Billy Joe was that he stayed in the league through 1969, first going to Miami in 1966, then to the New York Jets and was Matt Snell's backup. He got a super bowl ring (SB-III). He also had a long career as a college head coach with a couple Division 2 schools, and later was voted to the College Football Hall of Fame.
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Old 01-28-2019, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
3,451 posts, read 8,153,949 times
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Continuing the focus on 1950s and 1960s players:

*Ernie Stautner - better remembered by somewhat younger fans as an assistant coach with the Cowboys, he was standout defensive tackle with the Steelers
*Ron Mix - great offensive lineman with the Chargers
*Billy Shaw - great offensive lineman with the Bills
*John Mackey - great tight end with the Colts

I'll now add some 1970s and 1980s players:

*Randy Gradishar - linebacker with the Broncos during their Orange Crush defense years; how he's not in the Hall of Fame, I don't know
*Ken Anderson - really good quarterback with the Bengals
*Joe Klecko - excellent defensive end and then defensive tackle with the Jets during their New York Sack Exchange years
*John Hannah - one of the greatest offensive linemen of all time with the Patriots
*Dwight Stephenson - great center with the Dolphins
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:56 AM
 
Location: God's Country
5,188 posts, read 3,506,314 times
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Stautner was a standout DT and later in his career a pretty fair DE.


Colts wanted Mix. Imagine Mix and Jim Parker on the same OL. Recall Mix saying that his salary peaked at $14K.
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Old 01-30-2019, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Arizona
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I liked Pat Fischer and Erich Barnes as DBs. I enjoyed watching both.
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