U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 01-25-2019, 05:07 AM
 
13,975 posts, read 7,446,942 times
Reputation: 25530

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI View Post
So you're ok with the roughing the passer call? The catch that actually wasn't?
When was the last time the Patriots lost a playoff game due to officiating controversy?
Great teams make their own " luck" and make great plays. New England certainly does that- but on the rate occasion they are stopped in the post season- they always seem to get bailed out.
The only reason anyone could not see that NE appears to get the benefit of EVERY tough post season call is their irrational love of the Patriots or man crush on Brady and Gronkowski!
The NFL is a business, and the Patriots in the SB is good for business. They don't have to win it, just play in it- that is enough to attract the fringe, casual fans out there. Even the fans that don't know a touchdown from a touchback, know who the Patriots are. Plus the Patriots are so polarizing that having them IN the SB, makes it a must-see!

I laugh at patriots " fans"!
When their team gets bailed out in the playoffs, they mock the other teams fans, yet they themselves cry if their beloved patriots aren't shown proper reverence by the refs!
My cat knows more about football than your average patriots " fan"
This is pretty funny. I saw the Patriots play at Fenway as a kid before that dump of a Shaffer Stadium was built. I played in a state championship game at Shaffer Stadium as a teen (we got crushed). I remember the Bears beating in the Super Bowl in the Singletary and Refrigerator Perry era where veteran backup Steve Grogan replaced Tony ďHappy FeatĒ Eason partway through the game. I remember the empty stadium and TV blackouts and 1-15. Until the Belichick and Brady era, the Patriots were either lousy or found some way to underachieve. Parcells bailing out on the Patriots before the Green Bay Super Bowl tops the list. Iím enjoying the unprecedented 2 decades of dominance. It wonít last and the Patriots will be lousy again. Itís not like the Red Sox where a large market team with a huge cable TV revenue source can buy the top players. With the draft and the salary cap, itís inevitable.

 
Old 01-25-2019, 08:48 AM
 
16,532 posts, read 20,994,530 times
Reputation: 47991
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
This is pretty funny. I saw the Patriots play at Fenway as a kid before that dump of a Shaffer Stadium was built. I played in a state championship game at Shaffer Stadium as a teen (we got crushed). I remember the Bears beating in the Super Bowl in the Singletary and Refrigerator Perry era where veteran backup Steve Grogan replaced Tony “Happy Feat” Eason partway through the game. I remember the empty stadium and TV blackouts and 1-15. Until the Belichick and Brady era, the Patriots were either lousy or found some way to underachieve. Parcells bailing out on the Patriots before the Green Bay Super Bowl tops the list. I’m enjoying the unprecedented 2 decades of dominance. It won’t last and the Patriots will be lousy again. It’s not like the Red Sox where a large market team with a huge cable TV revenue source can buy the top players. With the draft and the salary cap, it’s inevitable.
GeoffD makes some good points. The Patriots had to go through several stadiums before they built Shaffer Stadium, which a lot of hardcore Pats fans derided as a gigantic erector set. Their first stadium that they played was Nickerson Field (Boston University). Then in 1962 they went to Fenway Park. Then for a couple years it was Alumni Field (Boston College) and after that they played at Harvard stadium until Shaffer was completed and if I remember right that would be 1971.

In their first seven seasons they still fielded a competitive team headed by a quarterback who was bested by Bart Starr from being the Packers #1 quarterback when Vince Lombardi became head coach and general manager. That would be Babe Parilli. They had a good run regardless, in 1963 they played in the AFL Championship game against San Diego.


Then came 4 years from hell until they drafted Jim Plunkett out of Stanford. With the exception of John Hannah the Pats had a porous offensive line, Plunkett got beat up and when Chuck Fairbanks took over, his philosophy regarding offense did not work for qb's who did not move like a gazelle. And Plunkett eventually went to the 49ers. Ownership became a question mark when Fairbanks all of a sudden blew out of town and took the head coaching job at Colorado University, which resulted in a disaster for Fairbanks.


Shortly after that came big problems for the Sullivan family as they took a financial bath regarding, of all things, Michael Jackson/Jackson 5 and their 1984 Victory tour. Two owners later Robert Kraft bought the club for, IIRC, 185 million dollars, and was quoted as saying he way overpaid for the franchise but was very concerned that the franchise might be sold to someone who would move it.
 
Old 01-25-2019, 02:55 PM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
2,125 posts, read 4,322,779 times
Reputation: 2467
Not all calls or non-calls are game changers. But calls at the end of the game can be as there is much less chance to overcome the referee's incompetence. I am not a Saints fan, in fact I pretty much don't like them but despite what could have happened or did happen during the games (i.e.:weakness early on by NO in the red zone) the Saints were hosed. Having that egregious of a refereeing gaff in the premier PROFESSIONAL sports league in the world is unacceptable. It screws up the experience for me and a lot of other fans. Pure incompetence when its that blatant and that game changing. NO would have won almost certainly if the obvious call is made (actually either of the fouls on that play).

I just can't ascribe to the argument that NO should have scored more before all of this happened. These were 2 pretty closely matched teams so a close scoring game should be expected. The chance for the NO WR to make a play was erased by a blatant egregious non-call. I watch the game to see the players perform and that chance was erased.

Shame on the NFL.
 
Old 01-27-2019, 09:44 AM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
2,125 posts, read 4,322,779 times
Reputation: 2467
Comments were not made to change any outcomes and no logical person would think they would change an outcome. I was under the opinion this forum and any other "discussion" forum was for the express purpose of expressing opinion ... which is all I did. You expressed your counter viewpoint which is your opinion.

Each call in a game carries a different weight which I think we can all agree on as each play has its own unique significance. An example would be a holding call at midfield on a 1st down 3 yard running play in the 1st quarter can not possibly be as significant as non-call on DPI at the 8 yard line with 1:45 left in the game. In the Rams/Saints game one takes almost a sure 3 points away (requiring a TD to overcome) and possibly takes away 6 or 7 (making it a 2 score game ). The situational significance is light years apart.

Now are there calls and non calls in every game that impact or could impact a game's outcome? The answer is yes, but each one is weighted in it's own significance. Every call has a significance but they're all different. Directly points were taken away from NO and a better chance to win given to LA ... directly.

Now a question. Are you absolutely discounting the psychological momentum changing impacts of refereeing calls and the timing of that impact (if psychological/momentum is a real influence on the game)? This is very crucial.

I want to be sure and strongly voice that I am not calling for the replay of the game and I do know the outcome has been set in stone and accept it (the outcome). But I also believe there will be action after the season at the owners meeting as a result of the egregious nature of the call.
 
Old 01-27-2019, 03:21 PM
 
Location: West Los Angeles
1,057 posts, read 1,535,980 times
Reputation: 820
While it was a mistake by the referee, as fans we typically want the refs to error on the side of non-calls as opposed to weak fantom calls. You know the weak stuff that I'm talking about, the type of calls that undermine the toughness and manliness of this gladiator sport. Well there's generally a mantra of the playoffs being a time when you gotta "earn it", especially late in games...so they let 'em play and you move on.
 
Old 01-27-2019, 04:06 PM
 
5,300 posts, read 3,333,319 times
Reputation: 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
#1 We aren't talking about a wide receiver asking a ref if he is lined up as you say...It was Dee Ford a Defensive End.

#2 The Refs are not required to nor are they expected to walk up to the lines and alert the defensive linemen if they are obviously lined up offside. Do you sincerely expect the refs to run out of position to warn players that they are lined up offsides while the ball could be snapped at any moment?

#3 Dee Ford did not ask the ref if he was onside he simply lined up way offsides.

#4 The ref irrefutably made the correct call.

#5 I've watched football for decades and this is the first time I've ever heard anyone complain because the ref didn't warn a defensive lineman for lining up offsides. I have seen refs throw a flag scores of times in this same exact situation and it has always been well..."he was obviously lined up offsides that was the correct call."



The only reason anyone could have a problem with the ref calling Dee Ford offsides is if you are irrational from your love of the Chiefs or irrational from your hate of the Patriots.
I agree with everything you said, and I'm actually a Bears fan, , just pointing out your comment:

Refs are not required to tell a player if they are lined up offside and he was factually lined up offside - it was a legit penalty.

When there are instances, not in this case, where players do ask refs (along the sidelines) if they are onsides or not. Your comment made it seem like it's an absolute, when it is not, just saying! If it was an absolute, the ref wouldn't even give the head nod or foot extension that a wide receiver is behind the line when they ask and gesture to them, but they do all the time.
 
Old 01-27-2019, 07:56 PM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
2,125 posts, read 4,322,779 times
Reputation: 2467
Don't care about McVay or Payton coach or out coaching .

But you win ... you're right. I'm sure you're always right!
 
Old 01-27-2019, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,770 posts, read 2,376,306 times
Reputation: 2620
The Saints & their fans have the right to be mad about the outcome. (I don't even like the Saints & I'm glad the Rams won by the way.) Everybody always says it's a game of inches, so yes 1 call can certainly change the outcome.

James Jones was interviewed on the Jim Rome show Monday, & he said when they watch tape the next day the players & coaches can easily see there are penalties being committed on every play. The refs simply choose when to throw a flag. Obviously they can't throw a flag every down because the game's already too long. But what gets coaches & players so mad is when & why refs decide to throw a flag on a play. A lot of times there's no consistency in what's called.

The Saints were that close to the stinkin Super Bowl. You know if it was your team you'd be just as mad. You can't say to their fans, just suck it up, in that situation. Not when a team like that rarely has a chance to make it. Plus this happened on their turf. The Saints are the team that's supposed to get those calls at home. It was a terrible missed call & it's a bad look for the NFL on one of their biggest stages.
 
Old 01-27-2019, 09:25 PM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
2,125 posts, read 4,322,779 times
Reputation: 2467
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSmow View Post
Absolutely incorrect. Points were not taken away from New Orleans. And the non-call on a facemask, which would have given the Rams first and goal was of equal importance to the play you are calling into question. It's really as simple as that. Just because it didn't happen at the end of the game is insignificant. The difference in how Sean McVay reacted to adversity as opposed to Sean Payton is ironic as the younger, less seasoned coach acted like a professional, and the coach that should have known better, acted like an amateur. Unfortunately for the Saints, Payton couldn't let it go and in the end, the coach that kept his composure is going to the Superbowl. Great teams and great players know how to deal with adversity. Obviously the shining example of that are the Patriots. But Sean Payton isn't at the same level as a coach as Bill Belichick.

Yeah, you're right! You probably always are so I'll lean on your aptitude here.

Another question for you not to answer: Don't see how Payton's lack of composure caused the PI or the helmet to helmet blow to the head on the same play at 1:47 of the 4th qtr. Can you tell me?


For the record my gripe is with the NFL. I couldn't care less about McVay or Payton and their "characteristics".

The 2 facemask non-calls are head scratchers but I can see the possibility of them being visually missed. But not the DPI as it was in the wide open in front of everyone. Their were 4 (that's FOUR) officials looking at that play DIRECTLY.

An interesting side note: ALL 4 (FOUR) of the officials are residents of southern Cal. ... 1 from LA proper.

That just some messed up optics for The National Football League.
 
Old 01-28-2019, 10:55 AM
 
16,532 posts, read 20,994,530 times
Reputation: 47991
Looks like we're back to where we were a few days ago.


Thread closed.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Pro Football
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top