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Old 02-25-2019, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA and Washington, DC
23,660 posts, read 33,505,247 times
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I would have filed this under “I don’t care” (I do support legalized and REGULATED prostitution) until I heard about the sex trafficking issues of these parlors. Kraft should be punished severely for this but I don’t think he should lose a billion dollar franchise over it. A 8 digit fine and long suspension from operations? Yes.

 
Old 02-25-2019, 04:20 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,653 posts, read 10,703,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter View Post
I would have filed this under “I don’t care” (I do support legalized and REGULATED prostitution) until I heard about the sex trafficking issues of these parlors. Kraft should be punished severely for this but I don’t think he should lose a billion dollar franchise over it. A 8 digit fine and long suspension from operations? Yes.
Has a final court decision come down that the alleged victims involved were forced against their will, and that Mr. Kraft knew about it or in some what corroborated in that aspect of it?

My understanding is that Mr. Kraft is about to be indicted for solicitation, which is a misdemeanor under Florida law punishable by up to one year in prison.

I have not read that he is being indicted on some crime related to whether he knew there was force against will involved or that he corroborated with it.

If those who perpetrated such crimes - probably the message parlor business owners, and those further up the chain - are found guilty, they should be sentenced to the maximum the law allows.

Having said that, on a lesser of two evils argument, I agree that prostitution, as well as drugs, should be legalized, regulated and taxed, all on a voluntary contractual basis.

Finally, assuming that Mr. Kraft is not indicted for a more serious crime than solicitation, chances are that, if convicted of the misdemeanor, he will skate a jail sentence if it is a first offence, but I am guessing that he will be sentenced to community service.

What do you think "severe punishment" should be, exactly, if convicted of a misdemeanor?

Now, what the NFL will do about it is another matter. Should the NFL mete out "severe punishment"? If so, what would that be, exactly? Fine and suspension?

Is eight figures excessive? Well, maybe not for Mr. Kraft.

How long a suspension? Fifteen years? That would be virtually life, but he has mature adult sons who could take over.

So maybe such punishment, by the NFL, doesn't sound unreasonable.

Wonder if he would contest such punishment in court.

Last edited by bale002; 02-25-2019 at 04:28 PM..
 
Old 02-25-2019, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,776 posts, read 2,381,149 times
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One of the times Kraft was caught on tape was at 11 AM eastern time the day of the AFC Championship game. New England played at 6:40 eastern time that day & it's a 3 hour flight from Jupiter Florida area to KC.

He also went to Orchids of Asia at 4:45 PM the night before, so twice in 24 hours. And both times the lady hugged him when he greeted them, like he was a regular
 
Old 02-26-2019, 05:23 AM
 
3,723 posts, read 3,891,087 times
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Kraft is going to face some sort of suspension and a hefty fine by the NFL. My guess would be a minimum of $500,000 (probably will be 7 figures). The NFL should take that money and donate it to a cause that helps combat human trafficking.

My assumption is that Kraft had no idea these girls were part of a larger human trafficking ring. You can say what you want about a man paying for sex, but I highly doubt Bob knew what was going on as far as where these girls came from.
 
Old 02-26-2019, 06:25 AM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,866,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAM88 View Post
Kraft is going to face some sort of suspension and a hefty fine by the NFL. My guess would be a minimum of $500,000 (probably will be 7 figures). The NFL should take that money and donate it to a cause that helps combat human trafficking.

My assumption is that Kraft had no idea these girls were part of a larger human trafficking ring. You can say what you want about a man paying for sex, but I highly doubt Bob knew what was going on as far as where these girls came from.
You may be correct.

But it might also be willful ignorance on his part. Don't ask don't tell type of thing. Everyone knows that those type of massage parlors can often have girls that are being trafficked. Unless you verify that they are not you are part of the problem. And say if a John only goes to one that he knows does not have trafficked girls, they are still supporting an industry that then enables the ones that do have trafficking to operate. It's a real bad look for Kraft no matter what angle it is looked at.
 
Old 02-26-2019, 07:28 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,653 posts, read 10,703,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAM88 View Post

My assumption is that Kraft had no idea these girls were part of a larger human trafficking ring.
From a legal standpoint, that is the correct assumption; in fact of law, he is not even being charged with that. We even have to assume, at least for the moment, that he is innocent of misdemeanor solicitation until proven guilty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
But it might also be willful ignorance on his part. Don't ask don't tell type of thing. Everyone knows that those type of massage parlors can often have girls that are being trafficked. Unless you verify that they are not you are part of the problem. And say if a John only goes to one that he knows does not have trafficked girls, they are still supporting an industry that then enables the ones that do have trafficking to operate. It's a real bad look for Kraft no matter what angle it is looked at.
Agree that it looks bad for Mr. Kraft no matter what angle it is looked at, except, however, from the criminal legal angle from which your arguments are not valid.

State statutes can be very quirky and specific about what constitutes a crime and judges instruct jurors, if it ever gets to that point in this case, to base their decision in accordance with the language of the statute(s) cited.

That's basically how George Zimmerman was able to skate scot-free, even though from nearly every other angle he looked like an unsavory character to say the least.

Of course, the terms of the argument would change if Mr. Kraft were to be charged with a more serious crime than misdemeanor solicitation.
 
Old 02-26-2019, 01:08 PM
 
6,486 posts, read 3,476,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter View Post
I would have filed this under “I don’t care” (I do support legalized and REGULATED prostitution) until I heard about the sex trafficking issues of these parlors. Kraft should be punished severely for this but I don’t think he should lose a billion dollar franchise over it. A 8 digit fine and long suspension from operations? Yes.
Really? So Kraft is trafficking woman? This is how stories make people think whacky and without logic. 8 digit fine and long suspension is crap and you should know that (unless there is something more to the story we don't know).

Did the girl tell him she was being held captive? If so then we might have something here. But if he went to get some oral and hand satisfaction, then he simply solicited prostitution and thus a misdemeanor. Krafts penalty should be no longer than Irsay's DUI penalty. DUI risks lives - what Kraft did maybe risks his health.

This is the tiring rubbish coming from people who simply want the Patriots to pay for everything they've done. Overblown SpyGate, DeflateGate, and now this.

Kraft will live with the public embarrassment. Other than that, he should be fined subject to FL laws for soliciting prostitution and then by the NFL for personal conduct policy, a penalty less than Irsay's.

ON another note, Krafts name will be used to highlight sex trafficking. Sad. Kaepernick chose to use his name as a voice for a cause, Kraft did not. If there is an ulterior motive to push Kraft hard for awareness, I hope he countersues for defamation of character or something like that.
 
Old 02-26-2019, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,408 posts, read 21,967,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everwinter View Post
One of the times Kraft was caught on tape was at 11 AM eastern time the day of the AFC Championship game. New England played at 6:40 eastern time that day & it's a 3 hour flight from Jupiter Florida area to KC.

He also went to Orchids of Asia at 4:45 PM the night before, so twice in 24 hours. And both times the lady hugged him when he greeted them, like he was a regular
the hug could have been part of the negotiated services for which they received the normal hug reimbursement
 
Old 02-26-2019, 03:49 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
2,270 posts, read 886,941 times
Reputation: 12457
I'm amused at how fast the conversation has shifted from ...

"Brilliant Bob Kraft deserves to be in the Hall of Fame because he is and has always been an integral part Patriots dynasty!"

... to ...

"Poor Bob Kraft! He's an old man who's losing his marbles and was probably just looking for some take-out kung pao when he wandered into the wrong place!"
 
Old 02-26-2019, 06:01 PM
 
6,486 posts, read 3,476,408 times
Reputation: 10276
And as more news comes out, the two counts against Kraft were from two woman. One was the manager of the spa and the other has a valid NY drivers license. And both have valid massage licenses. There were girls there being trafficked, but Kraft never engaged with them and my guess had no idea. But of course any way to drag the Patriots and Krafts name through the mud, and giving fuel to haters, will happen.
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