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Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
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we finally have a competant (if not elite) GM, a solid QB, and an O-coordinator that knows (and is still learning) how to use him.
For the first time in maybe 10 years, I finally feel like Redskins fans have hope for the future, and not just a single season when the team gets hot late.
Find me a scouting report that says Peyton Manning had no pocket presence or vision. That's what scouts were saying about Griffin.
I'm not questioning whether Griffin was considered the better player coming out of college. My point was that there was apparently a lot of bad tape on him that people ignored. And it turns out that the scouting reports were dead on because he doesn't have pocket presence or field vision.
FWIW, the scouting reports were also right about Manning. He does throw wobbly ducks. He is slow and relatively unathletic. Fortunately for him, you can be a HOF quarterback without a rocket arm and a 4.15 time in the 40. I'm hard-pressed to think of any HOF Quarterbacks who don't have pocket feel and vision, though.
Are you still arguing this point? Guy was the second overall pick, our team thought so much of his potential that they made the most expensive trade in league history to obtain him.. Our current GM is on record saying he was very very high on Griffin, particularly the way he threw the deep ball. Every team knew it was a risk, taking any QB high is a risk and it goes up with spread offense QBs. But most felt he was worth rolling the dice on.
Not sure what more you need to see to convince you that he was considered an elite prospect.
we finally have a competant (if not elite) GM, a solid QB, and an O-coordinator that knows (and is still learning) how to use him.
For the first time in maybe 10 years, I finally feel like Redskins fans have hope for the future, and not just a single season when the team gets hot late.
I'll say it again, our OC finally has the confidence in his QB to do what the fans have been asking for all year, to open the playbook amd stop with the 5 yard passes. Suddenly 2nd and 14 does not appear insurmountable anymore.
Are you still arguing this point? Guy was the second overall pick, our team thought so much of his potential that they made the most expensive trade in league history to obtain him.. Our current GM is on record saying he was very very high on Griffin, particularly the way he threw the deep ball. Every team knew it was a risk, taking any QB high is a risk and it goes up with spread offense QBs. But most felt he was worth rolling the dice on.
Not sure what more you need to see to convince you that he was considered an elite prospect.
I was never arguing the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I'm not questioning whether Griffin was considered the better player coming out of college.
Doesn't get any more clear than that. RG3 was the better prospect the way Darko Milicic was the better prospect in the 2003 NBA draft. The difference with RG3, though, is that there were some really scathing scouting reports that should have given any team pause.
And no, RG3's negative scouting reports were not the same as Manning's. Saying that a QB lacks pocket presence and has poor field vision is not the same as saying a QB lacks arm strength. Never in history has there been a successful QB who lacked pocket presence and field vision.
Now granted, RG3's college highlight video was off the chain. It's just too bad that you can't throw 60-yard bombs on top-ranked NFL defenses all day. Being able to quickly assess defenses and make snap decisions under pressure is more important than being able to run fast and throw far.
Doesn't get any more clear than that. RG3 was the better prospect the way Darko Milicic was the better prospect in the 2003 NBA draft. The difference with RG3, though, is that there were some really scathing scouting reports that should have given any team pause.
And no, RG3's negative scouting reports were not the same as Manning's. Saying that a QB lacks pocket presence and has poor field vision is not the same as saying a QB lacks arm strength. Never in history has there been a successful QB who lacked pocket presence and field vision.
Now granted, RG3's college highlight video was off the chain. It's just too bad that you can't throw 60-yard bombs on top-ranked NFL defenses all day. Being able to quickly assess defenses and make snap decisions under pressure is more important than being able to run fast and throw far.
There's always SOMETHING that, if a pick doesn't pan out, you look back on and say "Ah, should have known"
I think since the Ryan Leaf fiasco.. And, somewhat, with RG3.. People will be looking more for things like 'arrogant' and 'full of himself'.
There's always SOMETHING that, if a pick doesn't pan out, you look back on and say "Ah, should have known"
I think since the Ryan Leaf fiasco.. And, somewhat, with RG3.. People will be looking more for things like 'arrogant' and 'full of himself'.
I can't think of any top QB draftee who's been knocked for pocket presence and field vision. Those are serious red flags. I mean, where do you think those two qualities rank in relation to "cannon arm" and 4.2 40-yard dash?
I never paid much attention to the part about his "selfish streak." I only care about what happens on the field. So when I read 4 years ago that scouts raised concerns about RG3's pocket awareness and field vision, it made me wonder why he was so highly touted. You're basically not a real QB if you lack those two things.
I can't think of any top QB draftee who's been knocked for pocket presence and field vision. Those are serious red flags. I mean, where do you think those two qualities rank in relation to "cannon arm" and 4.2 40-yard dash?
I never paid much attention to the part about his "selfish streak." I only care about what happens on the field. So when I read 4 years ago that scouts raised concerns about RG3's pocket awareness and field vision, it made me wonder why he was so highly touted. You're basically not a real QB if you lack those two things.
Now you are just picking and chosing the reports that fit your argument. It was well reported that Peyton scored very low on the Wonderlick which measures intelligence. Now obviously intelligence is vital for a QB to learn a system and read a defense. Talk about a red flag. He also had marginal arm strength, again a pretty important factor in evaluating QBs. As I said you an find critical comments on critical components of playing QB on every single prospect.
Now you are just picking and chosing the reports that fit your argument. It was well reported that Peyton scored very low on the Wonderlick which measures intelligence. Now obviously intelligence is vital for a QB to learn a system and read a defense. Talk about a red flag. He also had marginal arm strength, again a pretty important factor in evaluating QBs. As I said you an find critical comments on critical components of playing QB on every single prospect.
I am not picking and choosing reports to fit my argument.
The Wonderlic criticism is silly. There is absolutely no correlation between success as an NFL Quarterback and Wonderlic scores.
Dan Marino - 16
Terry Bradshaw - 15
Jeff George - 10
Blaine Gabbert - 42
Greg McElroy - 48
Drew Brees - 28
Jim Kelly - 15
Tom Brady - 33
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 48
Peyton Manning - 28
Steve Young - 33
Matt Leinart - 35
Alex Smith - 40
Colin Kaepernick - 38
Sam Bradford - 36
Drew Bledsoe - 36
Tony Romo - 37
Quincy Carter - 30
Ryan Leaf - 27
Kirk Cousins - 33
Troy Aikman - 29
Rex Grossman - 29
Nick Foles - 29
Russell Wilson - 28
Mark Sanchez - 28
Joe Flacco - 27
Jameis Winston - 27
Jay Cutler - 26
Carson Palmer - 26
Aaron Rodgers - 35
Matt Ryan - 32
Brett Favre - 22
Donovan McNabb - 12
Vinny Testaverde - 17
Jamarcus Russell - 24
Ben Roethlisberger - 25
David Carr - 24
Andrew Luck - 37
Craig Krenzel - 38
Chad Pennington - 25
Heath Shuler - 16
What correlation, if any, between Wonderlic scores and the ability to play QB in the NFL? You could be a HOF QB with a crappy Wonderlic score like Dan Marino or Jim Kelly or a nobody with a high Wonderlic like Blaine Gabbert or Craig Krenzel.
Pocket presence and field vision, on the other hand, are indispensable components of being a high quality NFL QB.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 12-30-2015 at 04:20 PM..
Oh I totally agree with you and this has clearly been Griffin's downfall. But there is a big difference between playing in a pocket for 4 years and having no pocket presence and having never played as a pocket QB before. Had he been that first guy that would have been the red flag, the second guy scores Incomplete in that catagory.
Don't forget it was acknowledged from the very beginning that Griffin will need several years of development before he would be a finished product, that's what Shanny told Snyder. But the feeling was his upside was worth the risk and just like learning not to throw interceptions (Marino's problem in college) the hope was he could learn to play in the pocket once he got to the NFL.
But again my point remains there are risks, and faults, with every single QB who has ever been drafted.
Last edited by DaveinMtAiry; 12-31-2015 at 04:45 AM..
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