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You are missing my point Dave. Redskins were not all that into Haskins. That's a fact. One you even stated. Your exact words were "If it didn't play out they would have gone in another direction rather than overpaying and reaching into the top 5 by giving up other high picks". That is not the attitude a team should take towards the new face of their franchise. Again, I saw the same thing in 2013 with EJ Manuel. Hopefully this works out better for you guys.
Hindsight is 20/20 but it turns out Haskins was only mildly viewed as the future of a franchise. He didn't go early, nobody traded up to get him and the team that took him was okay with letting him fall and either getting him or not.
Again, my original post on the topic was in defense of Jones and the Giants since so many wanted to ridicule his selection. It's no different than how the Bears and Browns have handled the situation in recent drafts. Both look like good decisions so I can totally see why the Giants took Jones where they did.
I don't have a problem with the Giants selection, and honestly, didn't see people in this topic harping on it.. Seems it was one ticked off Giants fan saying one sentence.
Now.. Overall.. Redskins draft looks fairly poor to me. I will say.. Brett Rypien.. I've been talking him up for the past couple of months.. Very surprised he wasn't drafted with a late pick, not by the Redskins, just surprised he wasn't selected by anyone.
Haskins and Sweat each have their own concerns, of course.. Remember that Jonathan Allen had medical concerns last year and has been an excellent player. I just.. Was that a pressing need in the first round?
McLaurin, again, as I said before, not overly familiar with. Seems to be a deep threat, which.. Good pickup based on need. I just wonder, could they still have gotten him and picked up another solid WR, S or CB instead of Sweat? That's where my concern lies.
Later rounds.. 4 though 7.. Bryce Love.. I can understand this a bit.. But, not really. Even if you've written off Perine, which.. I think should be done by this point.. He's still under contract, you have Guice, AP and Thompson, and I believe Byron Marshall is still under contract. I just.. Don't see this being a need to be filled.
Wes Martin.. OK.. Good with this. OL needs some youth and this guy played about every snap in college. Similar to a Mitch Hyatt, who I think would be a good undrafted FA to sign.
Except.. Then they draft Ross Pierschbacher.. Ok.. 2 draft picks on OL.. Umm.. What about CB and S?
Cole Holcombe.. LB.. Kelvin Harmon, WR.. Jimmy Moreland, CB and Jordan Braiford DE.. I just.. Don't see this as doing a good job filling additional needs. We going to continue paying Norman far more money than he's worth? Greg Stroman the human torch(ed)? DRC, who.. Great player.. 10 years ago.
I like the first round.. Past that.. Good 3rd round pick.. Afterwards? Not so much.
You are missing my point Dave. Redskins were not all that into Haskins. That's a fact. One you even stated. Your exact words were "If it didn't play out they would have gone in another direction rather than overpaying and reaching into the top 5 by giving up other high picks". That is not the attitude a team should take towards the new face of their franchise. Again, I saw the same thing in 2013 with EJ Manuel. Hopefully this works out better for you guys.
Hindsight is 20/20 but it turns out Haskins was only mildly viewed as the future of a franchise. He didn't go early, nobody traded up to get him and the team that took him was okay with letting him fall and either getting him or not.
Again, my original post on the topic was in defense of Jones and the Giants since so many wanted to ridicule his selection. It's no different than how the Bears and Browns have handled the situation in recent drafts. Both look like good decisions so I can totally see why the Giants took Jones where they did.
Your point makes absolutely no sense. A better defense of Jones would be that the Giants found him more pro ready and a more seasoned starter than Haskins, and felt he wouldn't still be there by the #17th pick. You could make the case that there were other teams after the sixth pick and before the 17th pick that were possibly in the market for a quarterback. But to fault the approach the Redskins took in acquiring Haskins in order to justify the Giants' draft moves is just plain silly. The Redskins played it the way they should have. They got a quarterback of the future, a first round talent, and they will have him on a cheaper rookie contract - which works well for the contract situation the 'skins currently have to deal with with Alex Smith.
Moving up to acquire Sweat was a great move as well. Sweat is a first round talent, and I was a bit surprised to see him go as late as he did in the first round, but great for the 'skins! Overall, the Redskins had an excellent draft. I know there are others on this board who are more pessimistic than I am over the outcome of the draft, but I think the 'skins addressed a lot of needs, as well as depth, as well as grabbing the BPA. May turn out to be one of the best drafts in years for them.
But come on, don't talk about the Redskins didn't have conviction in Haskins. There are players that you feel highly of, you know you will draft that guy if he's available, and you know that said player can be a game changer. But you don't always need to give up the farm for him. That doesn't mean you don't have conviction in the guy, just means you're thinking about the team and the overall needs and not putting all of your eggs in one basket.
But come on, don't talk about the Redskins didn't have conviction in Haskins. There are players that you feel highly of, you know you will draft that guy if he's available, and you know that said player can be a game changer. But you don't always need to give up the farm for him. That doesn't mean you don't have conviction in the guy, just means you're thinking about the team and the overall needs and not putting all of your eggs in one basket.
We will just have to disagree. I'm big on having strong convictions on QB. Other positions? Take the players as they fall. That's fine. But don't mess around with the QB position. That is my philosophy. Get the guy you want. Get him with your first pick if you have two or get him as early as you can within reason.
Maybe I am just shell shocked from the EJ Manuel draft.
I guess it wasn't specifically Redskins fans I responded to earlier in this thread on this topic. But just three fans in general commenting on either the Giants dropping the ball or the Redskins hitting a home run. So I was disagreeing with those comments to a degree.
Anyway, good luck on the season and to tell everyone the truth I am not all that fond of the Giants so if things turn out differently than I suspect that will be fine by me.
EJ Manuel has nothing to do with the Redskins or Giants. Thank God we are finally moving on from that stupid debate.
Lebonte: I'm surprised to read you are not high on the draft, you are in the minority big time as most everyone is giving them high marks. Obviously it all depends on Haskins and who on Earth knows if he will work out. But getting their QB at their pick was simply a great move, and a good bit of luck. Then taking one of the top edge rushers with the speed of a WR is pretty awesome as was a lot of their other picks.
EJ Manuel has nothing to do with the Redskins or Giants. Thank God we are finally moving on from that stupid debate.
Lebonte: I'm surprised to read you are not high on the draft, you are in the minority big time as most everyone is giving them high marks. Obviously it all depends on Haskins and who on Earth knows if he will work out. But getting their QB at their pick was simply a great move, and a good bit of luck. Then taking one of the top edge rushers with the speed of a WR is pretty awesome as was a lot of their other picks.
Here's my issue with it.. What needs were filled?
QB, obviously.. That's a good pick. At least as it stands. It fills a need, it's a good player (in theory).. I'm a little shaky on whether he will translate into a solid NFL player, but.. Was that pick worthwhile? yes.
Edge rusher.. Was that a significant need? Moreso than CB/S? More than WR?
Waiting until the third round for a receiver.. 6th round for secondary.. Now.. The WR, as mentioned, nothing really lost there. The WR's between their 2nd and 3rd pick.. Seem to be a dime a dozen. Secondary, tho..
QB, obviously.. That's a good pick. At least as it stands. It fills a need, it's a good player (in theory).. I'm a little shaky on whether he will translate into a solid NFL player, but.. Was that pick worthwhile? yes.
Edge rusher.. Was that a significant need? Moreso than CB/S? More than WR?
Waiting until the third round for a receiver.. 6th round for secondary.. Now.. The WR, as mentioned, nothing really lost there. The WR's between their 2nd and 3rd pick.. Seem to be a dime a dozen. Secondary, tho..
Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely edge rusher was a significant need. And, we STILL got a couple wide receivers in later rounds that were highly sought after. The 'skins did well in the draft. I don't see how we can complain?
QB, obviously.. That's a good pick. At least as it stands. It fills a need, it's a good player (in theory).. I'm a little shaky on whether he will translate into a solid NFL player, but.. Was that pick worthwhile? yes.
Edge rusher.. Was that a significant need? Moreso than CB/S? More than WR?
Waiting until the third round for a receiver.. 6th round for secondary.. Now.. The WR, as mentioned, nothing really lost there. The WR's between their 2nd and 3rd pick.. Seem to be a dime a dozen. Secondary, tho..
Of course edge rusher was a significant need, everyone said QB, ER, WR and OL were the top of the need list. While I'm not a huge Preston Smith fan the fact is what did they have once he left? A totally unproven Ryan Anderson who has not yet lived up to his draft position. The Redskins just landed one of the top edge rushers in the draft, a guy who runs the 40 faster than just about every skill position player on the team. How you can't be happy with that pick is surprising. Then they picked other players at huge need posiitons, specifically WR and OL. You can't fill every need but clearly edge rusher was a more pressing need than CB with Norman, DRC, Dunbar and Moreso.
Of course edge rusher was a significant need, everyone said QB, ER, WR and OL were the top of the need list. While I'm not a huge Preston Smith fan the fact is what did they have once he left? A totally unproven Ryan Anderson who has not yet lived up to his draft position. The Redskins just landed one of the top edge rushers in the draft, a guy who runs the 40 faster than just about every skill position player on the team. How you can't be happy with that pick is surprising. Then they picked other players at huge need posiitons, specifically WR and OL. You can't fill every need but clearly edge rusher was a more pressing need than CB with Norman, DRC, Dunbar and Moreso.
It was clearly the best draft the Redskins have had in years. While we won't know the true draft grade for another couple years, it's hard to argue against the moves the Redskins made.
It was clearly the best draft the Redskins have had in years. While we won't know the true draft grade for another couple years, it's hard to argue against the moves the Redskins made.
Yeah, people have said that for years. 2012.. Mortgage the future for RG3.. Great draft.
2013.. Great draft (technically, getting Thompson and Reed out of it and not having a first round pick.. That was a pretty great draft)
2014.. "Great Draft".. The only player still with the team is Morgan "Offensive Holding" Moses. The human penalty.
2015.. Great Draft.. Well, Scherff is still with the team.
2016.. Great Draft.. Ionnadis and Doctson are still with the team, and Doctson probably just because he's under his rookie contract. Ionnadis (I never can spell that right) isn't a superstar, but.. he is excellent for a 5th round pick.
It'll probably turn out that the kid from James Madison will be the best player selected. And, that's nothing against Haskins or Sweat.. It's just.. a 40 year fan who is now jaded after the past 25 years.
Right now, I see an OL that can't stay healthy, other than one player who commits the most penalties in the NFL. A rookie QB and, basically, a rookie RB coming off major knee surgery. And noone to throw the ball to other than an oft-injured TE, a TE who is still beating father time (Davis) and 3rd down back, who wind up getting double teamed because there's no threat at WR. Richardson is good, but oft-injured. Quinn I expect good things from but hasn't been healthy.
On the other side of the ball.. a DL and a LB that is really good.. And had better be, because if the QB has 3 seconds to throw the ball, the secondary can't stop it. DRC was coaxed out of retirement. Norman's mouth is bigger than his talent (Admittedly, he does get us 2-3 turnovers a year via a killer right hook to punch the ball out) and Greg Stroman
All this said.. Does it matter a bit? Not really. Even being generous.. Does anyone see this team exceeding 6 wins? The QB who knows the system will likely be released (McCoy), though this is no huge loss.. The QB who will likely start the season (Keenum) is a journeyman backup who had one decent year behind a team that played to his strengths and ran the ball.. Something we don't know that our starting RB can do.
They'll go to Haskins.. Hmm.. When will this happen? Over/Under being the bye week. Remember the bye week is in November this year.. I'd have to say before.
2020 will be a new regime once Gruden is fired.. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Oh.. and a QB counting $25 million or so against the cap for the next two years who likely won't play another down, preventing any of the above needs from being filled via free agency.
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