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It's also worth mentioning that Craig Morton nearly spent the entire week leading up to Super Bowl in the hospital. The fact he even played is a testament to his toughness.
Bosco55David is right. He got the hell beat out of him in those playoff games against the Steelers and the Raiders. He didn't have great mobility to start with. As opposed to our 1997-8 clubs we didn't have a powerhouse back like Terrell Davis. Instead it was running back by committee with running backs like Jim Jensen, Otis Armstrong, John Keyworth, Rob Lytle, and Lonnie Perrin. I'd have to look it up, but if memory serves all the guys I have mentioned here all pretty much rushed for around 400 yards each for the season.
I would like to take a second and just thank you for your participation in this thread, you sure know Bronco football. Your posts are well written and very educational.
Allow me to pose a question to you: What are your impressions of some of our new rookies, and what specific impacts do you think they can bring?
I appreciate the kind words. Actually we have a lot of people who post on the team thread. And they stay on top on the info as well! In fact, we have more activity on our team thread than anyone else except for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
On to the draft. Regarding our top pick, it was a kind of a coin flip IMO regarding Nick Fairly and Von Miller. We got Miller, and this guy is the real deal. He's the best pick we've had regarding linebacker since Al Wilson in the 1999 draft. And I think he can be another Randy Gradishar. The reason I pick Randy is I saw a couple A&M games where Von Miller really stood out on a couple goal line stands. There was no one better than Randy when it came to goal line stands-nobody. Miller is athletic as they come and has Derrick Thomas speed, at least what I saw of him. He's a future all-pro.
I think our third pick, Nate Irving, will work out well. Don't know a lot about Mike Mohamed, who played at California. But both will make the squad, remember D.J. Williams has that dui hanging over his head and I believe he's going to have to face the music regarding a suspension from the NFL.
We picked two guys regarding the secondary, safety Rahim Moore from UCLA and Quinton Carter from Oklahoma. They're keepers as well. I'm not going to carp on the secondary at all, but we are definitely getting old in those positions. Between Dawkins and Bailey we're talking 29 years of pro ball. Still, those two can still play. I was thankful they extended Champ's contract. And Dawkins might not have a lot left but I really like the guy. He's the vet who has been organizing the off season workouts with the players. He's a great guy in the locker room too.
Another big problem we've had is a case of revolving doors regarding defensive coordinators. Since Greg Robinson in the 2000 season we've had seven. That's just unacceptable.
And speaking of unacceptable so is 23 sacks in a season. I don't think the overall talent was there in this draft with defensive linemen as opposed to linebackers. We drafted Jeremy Beal out of Oklahoma with our last pick. He might make the squad by default. Free agency will be the issue here. Losing Elvis Dumervil right off the get go sure didn't help.
We have good receivers but we're thin on tight ends. This is the year Knoshon Moreno has to step up and show Bronco fans why he was drafted #1 a couple years ago. Ditto Robert Ayers from last year. We can't squander top picks anymore, the latest example being Jarvis Moss.
Ok, so much for my guesses. With the off season being as disturbing (to me) as it is, I might dm a couple other Bronco fans to get their opinions. There's one guy here I won't have to page though as he's one of the top posters in the football forum and checks in frequently.
Bosco55David, whatcha got on this subject?
Last edited by DOUBLE H; 07-17-2011 at 04:01 PM..
Reason: correction, spelling
Well, where to begin on this one. First off, I still think Pat Bowlen has set this franchise back with some knee jerk reactions. Firing Josh McDaniels, just days after saying he wouldn't, was the big one. If you remember during the Shanahan firing, Bowlen said he wanted a more tightly structured hierarchy, where the GM GM's, the coach coaches and everybody discusses everything with clear lines of separation and authority. That just wasn't happening with Mike...and wasn't going to happen.
So, out goes Shanahan and in comes the young, hot coaching prospect. The problem wasn't that Bowlen fired Shanahan or hired McDaniels, it's that he turned around and gave Josh the same power he had given to Shanahan and not surprisingly, it didn't work out very well. Bowlen, rather than correcting the issue, made the knee jerk reaction of firing McDaniels. I'm still unhappy about that move, especially considering I have it on good authority that McDaniels had requested more assistance with the front office duties and that he, not Bowlen, was the one to reach out to Elway. Long story short, a 33 year old rookie head coach had more responsibility laid in his lap than he had any right to and got scapegoated when it all fell apart. I have a feeling that in 5-10 years we're going to feel like the Raiders did after they cut the strings on a young Mike Shanahan.
Moving on from that cluster, I think hiring John Fox was a solid move. He is a well respected coach who has been around the block and will bring a stabilizing force to the franchise. Elway has promise, but he too has been given too much power too soon and has fumbled the ball. Xanders is still a snake and I have a feeling he is on very thin ice. Our new DC, Dennis Allen, is someone who really intrigues me. He is a disciple of Gregg Williams and his multiple front hybrid blizting defense, which should work well with the talent we have.
As far as the team itself, we are a much better team than our 2010 record indicates. We have good talent at every position but defensive tackle and if we can get some stopgaps there in free agency, I could see us being a top 15 defense. Keeping Mike McCoy to run the same offensive system was a very good move in my opinion and if Moreno can stay healthy I could easily see this being a top 10 scoring offense.
Overall, I am cautiously optimistic about our immediate future.
It's also worth mentioning that Craig Morton nearly spent the entire week leading up to Super Bowl in the hospital. The fact he even played is a testament to his toughness.
I was surprised he lasted that long in SB-XII. He played with a bad hip injury and had little mobility. His stats were 4 for 15 for 39 yards and had 4 passes picked. The Broncos had good offensive linemen with Mike Montler, Andy Mauer, Claudie Minor, Paul Howard, Tom Glassic, and Bobby Maples but were outweighed and outspeeded(a new word I just invented!) by Dallas. Harvey Martin, Randy White, and Ed "Too Tall" Jones was in his face the whole game. Red Miller had no choice but to replace Craig with Norris Weese, who got the Broncos their sole touchdown. Weese had mobility and if memory serves made a number of his passes on rollouts. Plus by this time the Cowboys started blitzing.
I often wonder where we could have been at if we had a younger Craig Morton with that great defense we had.
Trivia: Craig Morton was the first quarterback to start two super bowls for two separate teams. Kurt Warner was the second. They are the only two regarding this.
Over the last few days I've been a bit hesitant to respond to Bosco55David's remarks regarding Pat Bowlen. I will now.
I don't remember commenting on Mr. Bowlen's health issues in the 2010 season, but I did briefly touch up on it the previous season. The other day I googled in "Pat Bowlen's health issues" and lots of stuff popped up. And it's not just the Bronco fan club sites and other NFL teams fan club sites that had a wide variety of commentary on this. Nationwide papers have comments on this as well. Memory loss and early symptoms of dementia have been talked at length. And over the past season he has absolutely kept a low profile.
I personally saw something wrong with Mr. Bowlen during his speech regarding Gary Zimmerman at the 2008 Pro Football Hall Of Fame presentations. At first I thought he was half bagged as he was talking. He stuttered, stammered, and on a couple different times during the speech I remember him apologizing to the crowd for "not being better prepared", saying he had little experience talking to that big of a crowd. Looking back to that day three years later it appears to me it went a little further than "not being prepared."
As one would certainly expect the Broncos are not making statements on this issue. The other day I read a lot of responses on the different chat sites on the net. And a lot of fans (not necessarily Bronco fans either) give credit where credit is due to Pat Bowlen for what he has done with the franchise since he bought it from Edgar Kaiser in 1984, and also his involvement with NFL matters in general and his association with the other NFL owners.
Still, it's on my mind and has been on my mind for a long time. But I'd like for other Bronco fans who are reading this thread to google in "Pat Bowlen's health issues" and draw their own conclusions.
Having said that, Bosco55David's point on Shanhan's dismissal has merit. Like I have said at various times on this thread, I'm not a fan of an individual wearing two hats. And Mike had full run of it. He made great decisions regarding free agents (Neil Smith, Romanowski, and others) to get those two super bowl rings and made bad decisions with others (Dale Carter, Daryle Gardner, and others). After the total collapse at the end of the 2008 season, two things stood out; an ungodly amount of injuries at running back and a defense that leaked like a sieve. The defensive coordinator position was a revolving door during that decade and Bowlen suggested to Shanahan that the present one should go as well. Shanahan said no, and after other issues involving the club (basically coming down to not being in the playoffs in the last few seasons) Mike Shanahan was shown the door. Most coaches have stubborn streaks about them. In this case, it's debatable whether a new coordinator would have been the answer. But Shanahan said no to Bowlen, then Bowlen eventually said no to Shanahan. Exit Shanahan.
I thought Pat Bowlen had some type of hip surgery a few years ago? But I could be wrong. The many times I have seen him at games, he always appeared very skinny to me. He has a slight limp, You can tell he doesn't fill out his suits very well. His legs are like sticks! I sincerely hope he is ok, just physically a little run down. I hope no serious internal issues. I will look up more info and see if I can find out anything. At least he has access to the very best care, that's not always a guarantee, but it helps!
I have met him a few times and he even let me look up close at one of the Super Bowl rings he wears. He's always been very kind to me and went out of his way to sign an autograph for me at a game in SF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H
Over the last few days I've been a bit hesitant to respond to Bosco55David's remarks regarding Pat Bowlen. I will now.
I don't remember commenting on Mr. Bowlen's health issues in the 2010 season, but I did briefly touch up on it the previous season. The other day I googled in "Pat Bowlen's health issues" and lots of stuff popped up. And it's not just the Bronco fan club sites and other NFL teams fan club sites that had a wide variety of commentary on this. Nationwide papers have comments on this as well. Memory loss and early symptoms of dementia have been talked at length. And over the past season he has absolutely kept a low profile.
I personally saw something wrong with Mr. Bowlen during his speech regarding Gary Zimmerman at the 2008 Pro Football Hall Of Fame presentations. At first I thought he was half bagged as he was talking. He stuttered, stammered, and on a couple different times during the speech I remember him apologizing to the crowd for "not being better prepared", saying he had little experience talking to that big of a crowd. Looking back to that day three years later it appears to me it went a little further than "not being prepared."
As one would certainly expect the Broncos are not making statements on this issue. The other day I read a lot of responses on the different chat sites on the net. And a lot of fans (not necessarily Bronco fans either) give credit where credit is due to Pat Bowlen for what he has done with the franchise since he bought it from Edgar Kaiser in 1984, and also his involvement with NFL matters in general and his association with the other NFL owners.
Still, it's on my mind and has been on my mind for a long time. But I'd like for other Bronco fans who are reading this thread to google in "Pat Bowlen's health issues" and draw their own conclusions.
Well, it's been kind of quiet but I want to add an item from one of the great players of our franchise.
This past week Pete Duranko has passed away. He was 67 years old. Several years ago he was diagnosed with ALS, better known as Lou Gherig's Disease. I was listening to a phone interview online on 850 KOA. Dave Logan had Mike Klis of the Denver Post and the discussion was on Duranko.
He was one of the few Broncos from the 60's that signed with Denver, that is before the merger with the two leagues. He was drafted in the 4th round of the 1966 draft and went to school at Notre Dame. When Lou Saban took over as Bronco head coach the next season in 1967, he penciled Duranko in as a defensive line starter at end. Duranko was never an all pro at his position but it would take an all pro to put him on the bench.
Ironically in the last couple years of his career it was not only an all pro player but also a knee injury in the final exhibition game in the 1971 season that did just that. And also the final play of that game. A young rookie out of an unknown college (Yankton) was put in to replace him as starter. The player was Lyle Alzado.
Pete played 2 more seasons before retiring and then finding employment in the steel industry. The last couple years of his tenure with Denver was as the 5th defensive lineman. He retired in 1973. I was fortunate to meet him one time at a Bronco "meet and greet" at one of the ticket retailers in Englewood. In his day when the Broncos didn't sell out there were tickets available through various retail stores in the Denver metro area. I bought tickets for a few games in the 1967 season and got to meet Pete and shake his hand.
I'm still a bit confused on the timing of everything, since the players have agreed to a deal, there's going to be quite a rush for things to get started. My question is, will the season still start on time? Meaning, the first regular season game on Sept. 8th?
I'm still a bit confused on the timing of everything, since the players have agreed to a deal, there's going to be quite a rush for things to get started. My question is, will the season still start on time? Meaning, the first regular season game on Sept. 8th?
If I recall correctly training camps in seasons past have generally opened up around this time anyway, some clubs a few days sooner and some later. Keep in mind the Broncos first exhibition game is August 11th against Dallas, so you have 17 days to get going on this. Also, Denver opens up the season on Monday night against the Oakland Raiders on September 12th. The only game that is scratched is the Hall Of Fame game in Canton. Everything else is as scheduled including regular season games.
Last edited by DOUBLE H; 07-25-2011 at 02:52 PM..
Reason: spelling, addition
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