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I could just as easily argue that with you being a Bears fan you are naturally predisposed to putting a more positive spin on Cutler's performance. Wouldn't you agree?
100% agree, and I know my homerism has an definite, quantifiable impact on my feelings towards certain players. I just do my best to try to curb it. I def want to further the discussion to the other things you said, but I'm a few cocktails in right now and I would not be doing myself a service by posting replies, while semi-intoxicated from my phone
Buuuut, just thinking we got a bears/broncos showdown coming in a few weeks. I think we should make a friendly status bet. If the Broncos win, Ill let you pick my Broncos related status for a week, if the bears win I pick yours...Ill keep it tasteful
I do have some interesting Bears stats though that Ill post later tonight or tomorrow RE: the Bears defense and offensive line you have been down on the last few pages. Dont want to go off memory tho
I think they did the right thing letting go of Orton. It was Orton's team to lose...and he lost it. I'm sure the players respect him, but he simply did not win games, and the offense was programmed with him in mind, I'm sure.
Tim Tebow may or may not work out, but right now, he's winning. I've never said that Tebow would be the next big thing, but I've never for a moment understood all of the conventional wisdom, which argued against even giving TT a chance at a starting position. The guy won - a lot - down at Florida. That might not translate to success in the NFL, but you at least have to give the guy a shot. If he can't do it with his arm, then let him beat teams with his legs.
The guy who deserves the most credit in this situation? Coach Fox. Give the man credit for trying anything to get his team turned around. Give him credit for realizing (unlike that 'genius' in Washington who used to coach in Denver) that coaches need to adapt to players, and not necessarily the other way around. Fox doesn't care if people think he's the Tony LaRussa of the NFL; he just wants to win, and he'll use any personnel and any packages and schemes to do it.
But going back to Orton, he was never the answer. Kyle Orton has, most likely, played his best football. I think he might be well-suited for a team that needs a solid backup, has a good running game, and can protect the pocket. I think Kyle could do well in situations that don't depend on him being an integral part of the offense. Put him in an offense (on a limited basis) in which he can be counted on to make decisions, instead of being counted on to make big plays. He's not a big play maker, but he can probably make decisions.
Because you have shown yourself to be a student of the game, right?
Why don't we cross that bridge when we come to it? Seeing as how Tebow is 4-1 this year, I don't think it will be happening anytime soon.
Not unless you count the days as a teenager where I helped my dad coach his peewee teams. My formal coaching time came at my former high school which is consistently competing for state titles and has a couple recent players in the NFL.
Which pros? If we're talking about Mayock, Jaworski (sp?) and Gruden...I would agree. I'd gladly put my football knowledge up against most of the others though.
Actually my opinions on McDaniels look pretty good in retrospect. I have and still do feel that he is an excellent quarterback coach and offensive mind, which he has conclusively proven. I did think he would be a better personnel man than he was, although in retrospect the problems there weren't surprising considering he had no real GM to speak of helping him out, and that was largely the downfall of his time here in Denver. Even then, his moves look pretty good in hindsight considering much of his coaching staff and almost all of this team's impact players are holdovers from his time here.
I'm also not sure where you get this idea that my bias against Cutler clouds my judgement of him. I could just as easily argue that with you being a Bears fan you are naturally predisposed to putting a more positive spin on Cutler's performance. Wouldn't you agree?
That said, let's say for the sake of argument, that Cutler is a consistently above average quarterback. Is that kind of performance justification for the resources and money spent on him? Of course not. You'd expect an absolute elite quarterback for that money, and even the biggest of Cutler homers would have a tough time making that claim with a straight face. Do you think Cutler could lead you past the Saints in the playoffs? The Packers? What about in a Super Bowl against the Patriots, Steelers or Colts (pending Manning's return)? You'd have to go back to the beginning of the decade to find a Super Bowl without an elite quarterback on one side, and the few times a team has actually won it without an elite QB, they had an elite defense. Since your defense is not elite (13th and 15th in scoring and yards, respectively) do you think Cutler could get you to a Super Bowl, much less win it?
cutler is on a team that is not loaded with talent but made it to a championship game? yes he will be able to get us to a supebowl and win it when he has more talent around him...you have to surround your qb with talent I thought you would know that being a so called student of the game, go hit the books again.... if you need an elite qb to make to the superbowl then you will never get there with tebow...elway probably agrees...if you put cutler on the packers or saints your headed to the superbowl...your a student of the game you would get an ''F'' in your judgement of cutler...also gruden loves cutler raves about his arm and plays with a makeshift oline...Do you ever watch the draft? remember when the trade was made steve young on the draft said ''YOU JUST DONT TRADE A FRANCHISE QB,'' he could not believe the broncos did that...are you winning because of your D or tebow? D still wins games with a running game...study more grasshopper
Tebow broke the mold at least and has a different style. Thats not a bad thing. I don't get the hero worship of the guy( not that there is much) or even worse, the condemning of him. I think most people just want to give him a chance which is all you can ask. That is not hero worship, its being fair.
Great talent in the game usually does not translate into great character on or off the field. The guy seems to be pretty down to earth which is a refreshing change. If he's good, be glad you have him.
By the time he was benched in the San Diego game earlier in the season I knew his time was short. I remember looking at the jumbo screen every time the Broncos went three and out. He didn't have the deer in the headlights look, but rather a look of befuddlement on his face. After the constant barrage of Tebow this, Tebow that, Tebow billboards out on the interstate, and the constant nonstop dreck delivered by ESPN's Merill "Mr. Potatohead" Hoge, I honestly believe he was relieved when he was benched although surely he wouldn't admit it. I've been closely following the NFL for over four decades and while I've seen a lot of quarterbacks kicked to the curb in midseason, I haven't seen it happen with these kind of distractions. Maybe someone else on this board has, I don't know.
I just want to thank Kyle for coming here and giving it a shot under not the best of circumstances. In today's Denver Post there's a comment from Orton's agent that he was lobbying for Kyle to be released so he can catch on with another team, particularly the ones who are in need of a quarterback now because of injuries to their starters. And John Elway accommodated them. If he came to Denver with a chip on his shoulder it would be understandable, by me anyway. He was a throw-in on the Jay Cutler trade as it was the two #1 draft choices that made the big news. And Chicago basically told him "see ya!"
I think they did the right thing letting go of Orton. It was Orton's team to lose...and he lost it. I'm sure the players respect him, but he simply did not win games, and the offense was programmed with him in mind, I'm sure.
Hard to believe that. The Offense could not keep a pocket. Orton could not run. He makes Rivers seem extremely mobile.
The running game never really succeeded, either. And the defense was at best porous.
Last year the Broncos were highest in points scored against them.
Brandon Lloyd led the league in receiving yardage, from Kyle Orton Passing.
Running game?
The leading runner for Denver, Moreno ranked 24th in rushing in the league,
Denver's second ranked rusher?
Tebow.
And he only played four games.
Of course, most of the time, when watching on TV, you could tell what the offense was going to do when they lined up. I am pretty sure that the opponents' D could tell, too.
A predictable Offense is easy to defend.
Back to the O Line: Only four QB's were sacked more often than Orton.
If there had been a running game, and less predictable play calling, Orton would have done better.
If the D could have kept the score down, the Broncos would have won more games.
This year, with Orton as QB, the offense was ineffective because they were, again, predictable.
Mcgahee behind the QB, they're gonna run. Moreno behind QB, they're gonna run. No RB behind QB, they're gonna pass.
The Defense is better this year, but they have still allowed 247 points, already.
What Tebow brings to the Offense is unpredictability.
And if the D can keep the opponent from scoring a lot of points, that unpredictability will get enough points to win.
The Defense really won the game against the Jets. Tebow just dealt the final blow.
Tebow is the most determined player I have seen in a long time. What he lacks in style and ability, he makes up for in determination.
I think that he can do great things because of his faith and his determination.
I hope that we can take home a win from San Diego this week.
I think Tebow can show the world what trusting God and never giving up can do.
cutler is on a team that is not loaded with talent but made it to a championship game?
Which he did on the back of a top 5 defense. Your offense was in the lower echelon of the league in points scoring and yards.
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yes he will be able to get us to a supebowl and win it when he has more talent around him...you have to surround your qb with talent I thought you would know that being a so called student of the game
I never said anything to the contrary. Of course you must build a solid team to reach the Super Bowl, but that was not my point. Truly elite quarterbacks are able to raise the level of play of their teammates. Every single elite QB in the game has done that. Cutler has never done it once in his entire career.
That said, the complaints about the Bears talent on offense are somewhat exaggerated. You have a very good running back in Forte, who is literally a perfect fit for Martz's offense. Barber is a pretty good complimentary back, and Knox, Hester, Williams and Bennett are a pretty respectable receiving corp. That offensive line is garbage, but the skill position players are not the scrubs Chicago fans would like to believe.
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go hit the books again.... if you need an elite qb to make to the superbowl then you will never get there with tebow...elway probably agrees...
Still waiting for you to tell me where you got that crystal ball.
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if you put cutler on the packers or saints your headed to the superbowl...
Doubtful. Our 2008 offense was every bit as talented as the Saints and Packers offenses. Cutler started off hot and then fell off a cliff down the stretch, and we were only the 16th best scoring offense in the league.
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also gruden loves cutler raves about his arm and plays with a makeshift oline...
He also loves Tebow too. What do you say to that?
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Do you ever watch the draft? remember when the trade was made steve young on the draft said ''YOU JUST DONT TRADE A FRANCHISE QB,'' he could not believe the broncos did that...
He would have had a great point if we had traded an actual franchise quarterback.
In hindsight though, I do think Bowlen made the wrong call in forcing the trade. He should have worsed a humbled Jay Cutler to come back to Denver with his tail between his legs and work with McDaniels. The bad side to that is that McDaniels probably would have tossed him out at the end of the season if he didn't start playing better, and that would have killed his trade value. Fun to think about though.
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are you winning because of your D or tebow?
How is that even a real question?
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you would get an ''F'' in your judgement of cutler...also gruden loves cutler raves about his arm and plays with a makeshift oline...Do you ever watch the draft? remember when the trade was made steve young on the draft said ''YOU JUST DONT TRADE A FRANCHISE QB,'' he could not believe the broncos did that...are you winning because of your D or tebow? D still wins games with a running game...study more grasshopper
