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Well, count me in as one of those who was surprised. I always thought and still do that Fox is a good coach. I guess you get to a point in an organization where just being good is not good enough coupled with Peyton's timeline.. they have to WIN NOW or they likely won win anytime soon. I guess, its a catch 22 because most fan bases would love to be in a situation where div titles, playoff wins and SB game is NO LONGER good enough!
I certainly understand where people can be surprised by this development. Coach Fox finished his career in Denver with a 46-17 record and a 3-4 record in the playoffs.
Right now I'm listening to the Dan Patrick show and he has John Lynch on right now. Lynch said he was shocked as to how Denver's defense was set up throughout the last few quarters. And thought to himself that the Colts are going to win this game going away.
He also made an interesting observation, comparing John Fox to what happened to Tony Dungy the years that Tampa Bay tried to get by Philadelphia to a Super Bowl berth and couldn't. Lynch ought to know, he was with that franchise for a decade. I'd have to take a peek at Dungy's stats while a Tampa Bay head coach, I imagine that those stats are somewhat similar to John Fox's tenure with the Broncos.
ADD>>>>>>> Dungy's coaching record with Tampa Bay finished at 54-42 in the regular season and 2-4 in the playoffs.
How much of Sunday's game had to do with poor defense and how much had to do with Manning's performance (injury) ? The Colts only scored 10 points in the second half and 24 for the game.... A healthy Manning likely scores more than 24...
IMO, the Colts defense won the game.. the Broncos defense did not lose it..
I think there is more to it than just Sunday's performance but what do i know.
IMO, the Colts defense won the game.. the Broncos defense did not lose it..
Have to agree here. However, the offense AND defense are much better than they played. Lack of a pass rush was a huge issue. Offensive playcalling was also a huge issue. I thought the coaches were really the ones that lost this one.
I also think the Colts D was playing some amazing defense. They looked very very good.
Everyone seems to love Adam Gase but I think his playcalling has really stunted the offense at times. He refuses to adapt his gameplan during the game. Basically whatever you see on the first drive is what you get for the first 60 minutes. Unless you fall behind, then you pass 500 times. No creativity whatsoever.
I really don't see that happening after Shanny's treatment of Elway post-retirement. He burned his bridge there from what I've heard.
An interesting story there, not so much with Elway but with Bubby Brister.
After the Broncos 34-19 win in SB-XXXIII, Elway made some tv appearances along with Mike Shanahan. I missed the one on Letterman but saw the two of them on Leno's show, maybe a month after the super bowl. The consensus was that Elway had made his mind up to retire but delayed the decision until after those tv engagements were over with.
Fast forward to week 3 of the 1999 preseason. Mike Shanhan dropped a bomb at training camp and demoted Bubby Brister to second string, elevating Brian Griese to the starting job. The whole thing was handled horribly right off the get go. Brister left camp for a week or so but did tell Mr. Bowlen he "needed to sort things out." Brister came back to camp, wasn't fined, but the mood around camp was pretty salty by most of the veterans. Brister in the meanwhile made some pointed comments about the demotion to the Post and the Rocky Mountain News.
Elway was good friends with Brister, Elway was reportedly at odds with Shanahan over this and both dailies got a lot of mileage out of the story. Elway was upset about how cold blooded the whole thing was handled and told Shanahan so. And that got a lot of mileage for most of the 1999 season. After the season was over Shanahan did admit to the club and the Denver press that he handled the situation poorly. For the next few years Elway and Shanahan's relationship was pretty icy, from what I remember.
I think for the most part things got patched up a little bit during the few days in Canton when Elway got inducted in the HOF in 2004. Shanahan, Dan Reeves and Wade Philips were there, as was Jim Fassel and Jack Neumyer, Elway's high school coach. I don't think the two will ever be best friends, but from what I've been told from people in the know that the two of them do talk to each other from time to time.
Last edited by DOUBLE H; 01-14-2015 at 09:24 AM..
Reason: spelling, addition
HH, always good stuff. If you look at the scores from that 1999 season you'll see the Broncos, who finished 6-10 that year, were very close in a lot of their losses. If you look at some of those close games, some of them you can't help but wonder if a more experienced QB like Brister would have made a difference. It's impossible to fully know of course, but it is very easy to speculate that team could have finished 9-7 or better and edged out the Seahawks for the AFC West title that year. It's an alternative ending I've pondered a lot over the years.
HH, always good stuff. If you look at the scores from that 1999 season you'll see the Broncos, who finished 6-10 that year, were very close in a lot of their losses. If you look at some of those close games, some of them you can't help but wonder if a more experienced QB like Brister would have made a difference. It's impossible to fully know of course, but it is very easy to speculate that team could have finished 9-7 or better and edged out the Seahawks for the AFC West title that year. It's an alternative ending I've pondered a lot over the years.
Yep, the 1999 season was a disaster all right. They lost 6 games by a total of 26 points. I knew it was going to be tough repeating when you lose your offensive captain (Elway) to retirement, your defensive captain (Atwater) to free agency, and your special teams captain (Keith Burns) to free agency. Still, Denver was expected to compete for a super bowl birth at the most, win the AFC West at the least>>>>>>>UNTIL season ending injuries popped up.
They lost John Mobley to knee surgery in week 2, Terrell Davis to knee surgery in week 4, Shannon Sharpe to a broken collarbone in week 5, and Alfred Williams to achilles tendon surgery in week 7.
But actually what I remember the most about that season was the Monday night game against the Raiders. It had snowed earlier that morning, the Bronco fans were in a surly mood, and the Lincoln Kennedy incident put a black cloud over the organization. It was in the third quarter IIRC, there were a few players on each side scuffling after a play was over, and the snowballs came reigning down in the northeast corner of the stadium. One of them was a "unlucky" shot and hit Raider tackle Lincoln Kennedy in the eye. And Kennedy immediately got into the stands and mixed it up with some Bronco fans. Charles Woodson of the Raiders threw a few himself, hitting a woman in the face. Play was stopped for 5 minutes. If I saw 1 snowball thrown, I saw a thousand-seriously.There were as many snowballs thrown from the upper deck as there were from 50 ft. away from the field.
Later in the week Kennedy took out a full page ad in the Rocky Mountain News apologizing for his actions. Needless to say the Bronco organization had done the same thing in one of the bay area papers. Ugly-real ugly.
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If winning the superbowl is the only thing that matters for Denver, then they have to get rid of Peyton also. He's owed a lot of money so they'd have to trade. His injuries have finally caught up with him, he is *not* the manning for 5 years ago. He'll be going into his 19th season in the league this fall if he stays. That's a LONG time, and the upstarts like Flacco, Wilson, and Luck are poised to lead the league in the next 3-5 years.
IMO Peyton lost that game. He's supposed to be a scoring machine. Denver didn't get beat buy 2 or 3 touchdowns, if he were 100% he would have been able to over come it. If Elway covets the ring as the only benchmark of success, if 44+ wins by Fox in 4 years is a failure then a QB like Peyton not overcoming a small deficit should also be an "F".
I am not a fan per se of Peyton but so hope he doesn't make the same mistake Montana made and stay longer than you should have. It's just going to look bad.
I am thinking about jumping on the "ditch Peyton" wagon.
Osweiler is good, real good. He hasn't had a chance to prove it yet, but ask the Broncos staff... they think he is primed to be a winning starter once given the job.
Osweiler would have gotten 15-20 yards on the play that Manning refused to run 5. Seriously, one of the most boneheaded plays I have ever seen. For all the awareness and football acumen that Manning has, it is astonishing that he could make such a serious mistake.
At first, I was hoping to keep Manning too... until I realized that the single best argument for keeping him is "he is the best QB of all time", but that isn't enough for me anymore. The best race horse of all time was eventually put to pasture despite being the best race horse of all time.
The biggest issue for me, is if Manning stays, he has to WIN a Superbowl next year, period. Anything else is a complete failure, especially when you have someone in Osweiler who has had a similar start to his career as Aaron Rodgers did. A few years sitting and learning from Manning is even better than a few years sitting and learning from Farve.
The other issue is; are we going to sign Osweiler to another contract next year if we keep Manning through 2016? If we don't another team will, can we afford a big enough contract to keep him while he sits behind Manning some more?
Sorry for the long post, so many thoughts...
If Manning goes, I would like to see a quarterback battle between Osweiler and Dysert. Yes Osweiler is good, and shows potential... but Dysert has been sitting behind Manning a couple years as well. He has good physical attributes and mechanics, and he is possibly the best guy I have ever seen for deep accuracy while on the run. He can put the ball exactly where he wants it, deep down the field, while under pressure. He can fix broken plays better than Manning, Osweiler is on about the same level as him in that regard.
So much to think about, so many possibilities. Taking guesses at what the Broncos will look like by next season is almost futile at this point. (Unless you are John Elway.)
I'm listening to 104.3 "The Fan" online right now--D-Mac blurts out---"Who reads Wikipedia?"--"They must know something we don't." "Because they have stated that Gary Kubiak has been named head coach of the Denver Broncos!"
I looked up wiki-damned if DMac isn't right!------I just googled in Gary Kubiak- nothing new. Last item was Harbaugh expects Kubiak to remain as offensive coordinator.
Will watch this closely.
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Thoughts on 1999
