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Old 07-29-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Arizona
1,034 posts, read 3,729,148 times
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OP, to answer your question, I believe that narcisissm is learned as is selfishness.

A couple I know (wounldn't call them friends but they are related to a close friend of mine) have a single son who is 10. He is a spoiled rotten little brat. He lies and cheats. He hits kids when no one is looking and then lies about it. He hates to see other kids receive presents, and has been known to steal and hide their presents/belongings so they cannot enjoy them.

His father is a very wealthy entrepreneur. Can't exactly say what he does other than he keeps himself and his wife in only the newest BMW models and in a very upscale home. The father is very prideful. Compliment him on a sweater and he'll boast that he got it on sale for $400. The son is his spitting image.

My friend once asked the boy if he had lots of friends at school. The boy smirked and said, "of course; everyone wants to be my friend. But I don't have friends so much as I have bodyguards." His parents looked at him with pride and proudly announced that their son actually pays classmates at school to hang out with him. He pays them money to draw pictures which he then signs and then sells to family members as his own creations. His parents find it adorable. I find it freaky and think this kid is headed down a lonely path in life.
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:39 PM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,363,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redjan1225 View Post
OP, to answer your question, I believe that narcisissm is learned as is selfishness.

A couple I know (wounldn't call them friends but they are related to a close friend of mine) have a single son who is 10. He is a spoiled rotten little brat. He lies and cheats. He hits kids when no one is looking and then lies about it. He hates to see other kids receive presents, and has been known to steal and hide their presents/belongings so they cannot enjoy them.

His father is a very wealthy entrepreneur. Can't exactly say what he does other than he keeps himself and his wife in only the newest BMW models and in a very upscale home. The father is very prideful. Compliment him on a sweater and he'll boast that he got it on sale for $400. The son is his spitting image.

My friend once asked the boy if he had lots of friends at school. The boy smirked and said, "of course; everyone wants to be my friend. But I don't have friends so much as I have bodyguards." His parents looked at him with pride and proudly announced that their son actually pays classmates at school to hang out with him. He pays them money to draw pictures which he then signs and then sells to family members as his own creations. His parents find it adorable. I find it freaky and think this kid is headed down a lonely path in life.
That is a special case indeed but I am not talking about those kinds of parents. I am just talking about the ones who tried very hard to raise their kids "right" to find out later that they didn't do a perfect job.

Just to be fair, I was not raised by people like that but I still turned out unhappy, selfish and impatient.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Wildside of Oahu
1,412 posts, read 2,675,031 times
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Originally Posted by crisan View Post
Right so when a parent only thinks about their wants, don't they teach their children to only think of their wants? Or at least, be unhappy or impatient that they don't have their wants. The flip side is to be happy or patient that I don't have my wants out of "politeness."
I'm sorry, I really don't get want your asking.

Are you saying that kids learn patience & manners from their parents modeling those behaviours? I would agree.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Arizona
1,034 posts, read 3,729,148 times
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Originally Posted by crisan View Post
That is a special case indeed but I am not talking about those kinds of parents. I am just talking about the ones who tried very hard to raise their kids "right" to find out later that they didn't do a perfect job.

Just to be fair, I was not raised by people like that but I still turned out unhappy, selfish and impatient.
Kids are born with their own personalities that will shine through regardless of what they have been taught. Parents can try to teach their kids to have morals and respect, but that doesn't necessarily mean that being unhappy and impatient isn't just a part of the kids personality.

My grandparents were saints in my eyes. Perfect in nearly every way. I adore them (still have my grandma but lost my grandad in 96). Somehow both of their children turned out to be the most selfish and worthless people you'd ever meet. Both claimed disability early in life so they could stop working and both are only concerned with their potential future inheritance once my grandma passes. They're sick people, born to the most wonderful, honest, loving, hardworking folks in the world.

So yes, parents can do their best to do everything right, but still raise an unhappy child.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Joliefille View Post
I'm sorry, I really don't get want your asking.

Are you saying that kids learn patience & manners from their parents modeling those behaviours? I would agree.
I am saying that it is actually simpler than that. Usually when parents model they are really telling their kids "you can wait because it is the polite thing to do."
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:18 PM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,363,106 times
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Originally Posted by redjan1225 View Post
Kids are born with their own personalities that will shine through regardless of what they have been taught. Parents can try to teach their kids to have morals and respect, but that doesn't necessarily mean that being unhappy and impatient isn't just a part of the kids personality.

My grandparents were saints in my eyes. Perfect in nearly every way. I adore them (still have my grandma but lost my grandad in 96). Somehow both of their children turned out to be the most selfish and worthless people you'd ever meet. Both claimed disability early in life so they could stop working and both are only concerned with their potential future inheritance once my grandma passes. They're sick people, born to the most wonderful, honest, loving, hardworking folks in the world.

So yes, parents can do their best to do everything right, but still raise an unhappy child.
That is what I am saying. My parents tried to do everything right but I still was unhappy. Though I tried to be happy because people said that if I smiled more I would be happy. I tried to be happy by go after my wants because that was what I saw everybody else doing.
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:11 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
15,710 posts, read 22,756,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan View Post
That comes about not being able to wait for what you want. You want it now and you will do what ever is necessary to have it now. I believe you learn this behavior from the people who raised you.

Disagree and not true for all narcisists.

The cause is undecided bc they come from varying backgrounds....

Parental neglect during the narcisisstic stages of childhood development
when their needs are not met or....

A parents overindulgence of a child, not just materially, but giving them some grandious overinflated view of themselves.

You might want to do some reading.
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:20 PM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,363,106 times
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Originally Posted by virgode View Post
Disagree and not true for all narcisists.

The cause is undecided bc they come from varying backgrounds....

Parental neglect during the narcisisstic stages of childhood development
when their needs are not met or....

A parents overindulgence of a child, not just materially, but giving them some grandious overinflated view of themselves.

You might want to do some reading.
Why would parents neglect?

Why would parents overindulge?

It sounds like those two behaviors should not be discussed and perhaps if they are discussed, they should be discussed separately. But the outcome is just the same: narcissism. Just the narcissistic child should be discussed. Don't you think the narcissistic child might neglect or overindulge when he becomes a parent?

Oh, and your "advice" at the end, a wise person on this board told me that I read way too many books. You think I haven't read enough. Hmmm, sounds like the neglect and overindulge argument.

Last edited by crisan; 07-29-2010 at 06:41 PM..
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:00 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
15,710 posts, read 22,756,161 times
Reputation: 17456
LOL @ the last comment..I don't know what you're reading... the interpretation is what your picking from the context.

Right though, they both produce the same. The direct contact with narcisissm I've had, came from the the first category I mentioned. Bottom line no matter what they project, its compensation for the insecurity and use whatever methods work to overcome those feelings bc they think they're deserving, whether the reasons are neglect or overindugence

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan View Post
Why would parents neglect?

Why would parents overindulge?

It sounds like those two behaviors should not be discussed and perhaps if they are discussed, they should be discussed separately. But the outcome is just the same: narcissism. Just the narcissistic child should be discussed. Don't you think the narcissistic child might neglect or overindulge when he becomes a parent?

Oh, and your "advice" at the end, a wise person on this board told me that I read way too many books. You think I haven't read enough. Hmmm, sounds like the neglect and overindulge argument.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Wildside of Oahu
1,412 posts, read 2,675,031 times
Reputation: 2433
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisan View Post
That is a special case indeed but I am not talking about those kinds of parents. I am just talking about the ones who tried very hard to raise their kids "right" to find out later that they didn't do a perfect job.

Just to be fair, I was not raised by people like that but I still turned out unhappy, selfish and impatient.
I think most parents, myself included, discover that they made mistakes or didn't produce "perfect" kids. I can only hope that the love and caring I gave over the years will be remembered along with my mistakes.

But it sounds like you are unhappy with yourself? Everyone has times where they're impatient or selfish. But as you mature, you will be able to veiw those times objectively and ask your self how to stop those negative behaviours. Often times, its simple shame that makes you want to be a better person.

If you continually feel unhappy, you may want to see a counselor and discuss it.
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