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Old 07-08-2011, 09:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight2009 View Post
To repeat: I don't hate homos*xuals. I never have. But at the same time, I cannot agree on a moral basis with their chosen s*xual practices.
its none of your business what they do, nor do they require your approval. And we aren't 'pro gay' but 'pro human'
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 21,527,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight2009 View Post
In answer to your question: one thing I really dislike is the way that Hollywood plays up and glamorizes homos*xuality as a culturally super-hip, ultra-desirable and cool sort of thing. Gays are routinely portrayed as the hippest, uber-cool, totally awesome commodity by today's mainstream media -- just turn on the TV and watch the myriad number of reality TV shows, movies, etc., blatantly promoting homos*xuality as desirable. You don't see straight ppl openly flaunting their s*xuality like that. It's the way that those who are militantly homos*xual "flaunt it", with an "in your face" attitude, that I find extremely distasteful. Gays who keep their private intimate life "private" and don't try to force you to culturally endorse and validate their lifestyle, I have no problem at all with. As far as I am concerned, both straight and gay ppl should keep their private intimate life and s*xual proclivities, private and in the bedroom, where it belongs.

I agree with you that Hollywood and all the crassness it entails has a habit of turning a lot of Gay issues almost into a circus but to me a lot of the "camp" Gay people ( for lack of a better word - not that I see campness as something that bad, it can irk me sometimes but as long as it does not harm anyone then who am I ?) which you see are at the end of the day a very vocal but nonetheless tiny minority. Just because they are more visible does not mean they are representative of the majority of people. I would like to hope that the Tea-Party is not representative of the majority of Republicans ( though I am starting to wonder sometimes...).


I know a lot of Gay people and I suspect unless you asked them you would never know they were. Most Gay people look like you and me, have normal jobs, normal families and go about their daily business as everyone else does. Gay people pervade every single part of our society and are in many ways on the whole a silent and quiet group. Soldiers, Engineers, Teachers, Blue Collars or Office workers most Gay people simply walk among us without us even noticing them. Most would not even mention their sexuality until asked.



The Gay "lifestyle" seems to be to me a myth perpetrated by a few "flaming" Gay people in show business ( flamboyant people of both sexes tend to be "flaming" in my opinion anyway )and a very anti Gay press. Both extremes seem to collude and give the public a distorted image of what a Gay person is.



I don't think there is a lifestyle. In fact most Gay people I know actually find Gay pride Parades and Gay clubs embarassing and some find it even offensive as it demeans what they are. Normal people going about their normal business.




As for people not flaunting their straightness are you kidding me ? We live in a society which is so over sexualised that is IMO disintegrating from within.

People flaunt their sexuality ( and I am talking hetero here) at every single turn.

Women who dress provocatively ( even small kids nowadays feel end up behaving like strippers often , I have seen Playboy Bunnies outfits for 5 year olds, bought by Mommy and Daddy) and men who do nothing but leer and lecher at every turn.


Our TV and movie screens are filled to the rafters of sexual images, music videos make it look as though there is nothing more important for human beings than to behave like baboons on heat. Fidelity and monogamy are derided on a daily basis, porn and sexual excesses feted and elevated to ridiculous heights. The Heterosexual lifestyle is rammed down our throats every single minute of the day it seems. We are as a society far more interested in people's shennanigans than in War, Famine or the Economy. Sex, sex, sex. That is all pervading.


To escape this barrage of sexual excess is almost impossible. Women are told by magazines how to "please" their men and men constantly made aware of any sexual inadequacies they might have in the sack. We are obsessed to the point of oblivion I think. The Porn and Sex industry are one of the biggest money makers on the planet. You probably make more money peddling boobs and penises than you do selling just about anything else. It is the ONE commodity we never seem to tire of....


I would say if anything that heterosexuals are even more vocal than the "camp" and flamboyant members of the Gay community.

I find all extreme groups on the whole off putting to be honest be they "militant" Gay people or militant right wing anti-Gay.



I don't think there is anything wrong with being Gay personally but I accept some people will take issue with it for various reasons. As long as it is not hateful and destructive I would not necessarily call those people Homophobes. But when it comes to trying to legislate against sexuality or being downright vicious and nasty then yes I have a problem with those people.

Two friends of mine who are Christian are deeply uncomfortable with the issue but they also realise it really has little to do with them and always try to be tolerant and kind to people they might have a problem understanding. I think they still disapprove strongly but do not feel they can judge or treat people differently and I respect them for that. I would not say they are Homophobe because they still treat everyone the same regardless of their feelings on the issue.


They are entitled to feeling the way they do though I personally do not understand it but I draw the line at them trying to stop two people from marrying or adopting for example.



To be honest to me the issue has always been one of harm. There are so many things which I find morally repellent and repugnant but as long as nobody is hurting someone else then I just have to remember these are my prejudices and as such my problem not the other persons' involved. If two consenting adults are involved then I know I have to butt out as it is at the end of the day none of my business.

I would have been appalled and pretty militant had someone told me I could not marry my Husband because being hetero was "wrong" and someone disapprove of my "lifestyle" . I too would have taken to the streets to try and redress the injustice. In many ways I am amazed how good natured the Gay Lobby has been on these issues. People have started riots over a lot less.

I believe what is good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak. I have rights enshrined in law and I want these extended to ALL.

I am no more pro-Gay than I am pro-Hetero. I tend to judge people on a one to one basis and on the content of their character. Many Heteros get up my nose but I don't assume every Hetero is going to when I meet someone new. I extend the same courtesy to Gay people.

I try to give people a chance regardless of their sexuality because anything else IMO is just narrow minded and intellectually disingenuous.

Last edited by Mooseketeer; 07-08-2011 at 09:44 AM..
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Europe, in the Land of the mean
942 posts, read 1,490,759 times
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Mooseketer's post 's spot on as always. Thanks for saving me the effort of thinking! Couldn't rep you , hey CD; it's not my fault that Mooseketeer 's so astute
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:34 AM
 
9,018 posts, read 7,953,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight2009 View Post
In answer to your question: one thing I really dislike is the way that Hollywood plays up and glamorizes homos*xuality as a culturally super-hip, ultra-desirable and cool sort of thing. Gays are routinely portrayed as the hippest, uber-cool, totally awesome commodity by today's mainstream media -- just turn on the TV and watch the myriad number of reality TV shows, movies, etc., blatantly promoting homos*xuality as desirable. You don't see straight ppl openly flaunting their s*xuality like that. It's the way that those who are militantly homos*xual "flaunt it", with an "in your face" attitude, that I find extremely distasteful. Gays who keep their private intimate life "private" and don't try to force you to culturally endorse and validate their lifestyle, I have no problem at all with. As far as I am concerned, both straight and gay ppl should keep their private intimate life and s*xual proclivities, private and in the bedroom, where it belongs.

You're points are well taken, Knight. Its irrelevant what other' think. You are entitled to your opinion & I must say I'm also tired of how the openly gay lifestyle is being overhyped in the media. Its being force fed to us, & I've just tuned most of it out. That's why I never watch tv tho (or as I call it the idiot box).
As for people on here joining forces against you to demonize you, it's irritating to see that they feel their opinions matter more than yours. Why don't they just agree to disagree & leave it at that??
Fight The Good Fight
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Old 07-08-2011, 09:47 AM
 
3,490 posts, read 7,215,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
don't think there is anything wrong with being Gay personally but I accept some people will take issue with it for various reasons. As long as it is not hateful and destructive I would not necessarily call those people Homophobes.
I think most if your post is excellent.
I'm just unsure about this bit. I mean in one way I agree with you, but in another.....
I mean would it be ok to have an issue with black people as long as it is not hateful or destructive?

I guess the title of this thread is perfect for me - this is an issue which I find intolerable. I just think that people are people and it upsets and angers me that people continue to denegrate others for being different when those difference have NO effect on anyone's lives except the people involved. I just don't understand it!
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 21,527,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobokenkitchen View Post
I think most if your post is excellent.
I'm just unsure about this bit. I mean in one way I agree with you, but in another.....
I mean would it be ok to have an issue with black people as long as it is not hateful or destructive?

I guess the title of this thread is perfect for me - this is an issue which I find intolerable. I just think that people are people and it upsets and angers me that people continue to denegrate others for being different when those difference have NO effect on anyone's lives except the people involved. I just don't understand it!
I personally don't understand racism, homophobia, xenophobia ,sexism , to me it is just silly to me when it comes down to it. But I think if we are all honest I think most of us have certain prejudices and though I don't think it is OK I accept that you cannot hope to change everyone's sense of misgivings of prejudice ( though you should hopefully try to). I suppose what I meant is I accept that some people will be "racist" to a degree . I think for a myriad of reasons which to me are not necessarily valid .


My Great-Uncle for example has definite prejudices about people like Jewish , Black people, Arabs etc... I have argued with him so many times and he just cannot understand why I get so annoyed about it.


But though he could be considered racist he also spent half of WW2 smuggling Jewish people out of France to safety at great personal risk, because though he admits he is prejudiced to him this does not mean anyone has the right to hurt anyone else. You do not kill or harm people simply because they are different as he put it.

He went to death camps for this so I am willing to accept that he is wrong in his views but still good enough a person to see that justice demands a little more than letting others be hurt in any way simply because some people do not meet his idea of "right".


I think he is one of millions of people who have those preconceived notions , which I would love to see a thing of the past but also the integrity to remain human at the core. I know it sounds a little muddled and possibly a bit pathetic but I do think in many ways often the best we can hope for is for people to remain civilised and kind to others even if inside they still feel the "other" ( whatever form that takes) is just not quite "right".

Racism sadly like other forms of bigotry to me seems to be an inherent part of Human Nature. We fear and reject what we do not understand , what gives us a sense of alien-ness.

We are all herd animals, safety in numbers and most humans congregate around like minded people . We have acchieved much in the last century but I think it would be naive to think we can revert this kind of inherent mentality totally.


So sometimes yes the best we can achieve is for mutual respect though we might often simply consider ourselves to be "better" or have a monopoly on "right". I do hope one day we can learn to accept the other even if we cannot truly embrace him/her. Because that to me would be progress enough.

It is never OK to be racist but between a racist person who is harmful to others and one who simply has prejudices but bites his/her tongue and does not allow it to interfere with their humanity then I think the latter has to be the better option.

I still fustigate my Great-Uncle , age 90 once in a while but the battle is lost.

He has to his credit become more and more tolerant as he has gotten older and met more people of other races. His now dotes on the Grand_Daughter of a neighbour who is from North Africa and has even managed to make friends with another elderly curmondgeon who is Black. I think for many people racism is simply a lack of understanding, knowledge and contact with the "other".

For some it takes a truly sinister turn and becomes true and sheer bigotry, hatred and violence.

I often think we would be better human beings if we were all colour blind. Mind you then the bigotry would be against who has this kind of voice or skin or whatever other prejudices we could come up with.... Humans seem to have this bizarre need to feel superior to others, and to validate their own lives by putting down others.

Be they of a different race, creed, sexual orientation, or even stupid things like having red hair or being fat. Bullies to me should almost be pitied because they miss out on so much and rule by fear rather respect which is pathetic.


I don't get it and it saddens me.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,253 posts, read 49,796,479 times
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100% agree with the idea that anyone can believe whatever they want, as long as they don't impose their beliefs on others by restricting their freedoms and their civil rights.

What you think and how you behave can be two very different things. It's part of living in a polite, civilized society.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Over There
402 posts, read 1,208,201 times
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Post Personality traits & Habits that can be hard to deal with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
What drives your impatience? For me, it's when a person panics, crazily panics imo, when faced with a bit of chaos. . . . So, how about you?
Personality traits & Habits that can be hard to deal with:

Abusive / Abrasive / Arrogant / Apathetic / Anxious
Belligerent / Belittling / Bossy
Cruel / Cold / Combative / Creepy / Cynical / Cheating
Dishonest / Deceitful / Domineering / Disrespectful / Deranged
Evil / Egocentric / Envious
Filthy
Gross / Greedy
Hateful
Ignorant / Immature / Insane / Irritable
Jealous
Kind to your face but not to your back (two-faced)
Lack of respect (Disrespectful)
Malicious / Malcontented / Mean / Manipulative
Narcissistic
Obnoxious / Oppressive
Pessimistic / Pugnacious / Passive aggressive
Quarrelsome
Rude / Racist / Ruthless
Selfish / Spiteful
Truculent / Thoughtless
Unforgiving / Uncaring / Users
Violent / Vulgar / Vengeful
Wicked / Whiney
Xenophobic
Yellers (habitual yelling)
Zany (buffoonish)

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Old 07-08-2011, 10:44 AM
 
5,387 posts, read 6,269,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
100% agree with the idea that anyone can believe whatever they want, as long as they don't impose their beliefs on others by restricting their freedoms and their civil rights.

What you think and how you behave can be two very different things. It's part of living in a polite, civilized society.
Except that some gay ppl are trying to do exactly what you mention above (i.e., impose/force their beliefs on others...by attempting to tear down the existing laws on marriage, that society has held as sacrosant for millennia, and have their own self-interested "rights" legally-enforced, above the protests of those who believe that marriage should remain as it has always been...a matrimonal union between a man and a woman).

If that is not legal coercion, then I don't know what is...one could reasonably conclude that the pro-gay lobby is simply stacking the deck of the law, to be in their favor.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:50 AM
 
5,387 posts, read 6,269,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobokenkitchen View Post
Exactly. It's so weird to me how this twisted 'logic' works.

Anyway it doesn't matter - I have read a few of your posts and you don't strike me as someone who's opinion I would take too seriously anyway.
You've already decided that you don't like me as a human being, all based on what happens to be a single aspect of my views of modern life and society, and regardless of anything else or other qualities I posses...but by all means, do what you think is right

Last edited by Phoenix2017; 07-08-2011 at 11:08 AM.. Reason: Corrected semantics
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