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Old 09-21-2011, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Southwest Desert
4,166 posts, read 5,174,193 times
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hiknapster...Thanks for all you shared. Good that you have a sense of your own worth and value despite all you've been through in your life. Sounds like you've learned a lot! I think we can get through anything if we take time out to process our feelings all along the way. I let myself "get mad" if I feel that I am being treated unfairly or I let myself "cry a river" etc....It's just not healthy to keep everything all "bottled up!" It can take a "big toll" on us in the long-run. Don't you think? Thanks for posting.
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
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Americans (on the whole) do not have high self-esteem. They have arrogance. Even when all facts are to the contrary, they will insist that they are the smartest, the best at athletics, the most productive, the best-looking, the most romantic, the best lovers... the list goes on and on.

The video is right; it all started changing in the 70's; when schools started focusing on "everyone gets a prize!" , fuzzy math "there are no wrong answers!", and casually excusing poor language, science, and comprehension skills. No longer was it important to read and interpret Milton or Shakespeare, no longer was it paramount to solve for the unknown 'x'. What mattered is how students 'felt' about math and science and grammar, not that their conclusions were accurate or logical. Reporters stopped reporting on 'who, what,when, where, and why' and instead charged at people, demanding to know "how does it FEEL??" We became more worried about how students and children 'felt' than about what they were learning.

Now we have two generations, who have come up under educational, governmental, and parental systems that depend solely on undisciplined and uneducated emotional responses, not on rational thought and an understanding of potential consequences. It won't be until they are at the bottom again of the hierarchy of needs that they will even begin to change, to revert back to what really matters - and most of those two generations will be lost on the wayside, wandering about, wondering why no one is listening or cares how they feel. The ones who were raised under logic and reason will at least be functional. "In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king". Those who are able to reason, think, and communicate will rule the rest of the ignorant mob, who will still be sitting around plaintively crying, "HEY, whattabout ME?" with their hands out.

This also supports my theory about the uptick in the rise in numbers of drama queens in the last two generations...
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Gettysburg, PA
1,563 posts, read 1,510,434 times
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The views hiknapster has stated closely reflect my own concerning self-esteem and narcissism. I concur with the idea, and at least it is my impression, that our society is very much "me-centered" (one thing I can't seem to get over is the prolificness of all the "i" technology, i,e. "i-phone" "i-pad"; understandingly a superficial reason, I nonetheless will not buy any of these things partly because of the self-centered name of the product).

One thing about self-esteem, which I'm not sure was brought up, is that it is important to note that everyone has flaws. It is my opinion that one's self-esteem can be promoted in a large way by recognizing these flaws, and then work on improving on them; I find it very helpful, when my mind can safely wander (such as, not at work), to meditate on the past several days, recognizing times when I definitely have not been at my best, and work on finding ways to overcome these difficulties.

Each individual must find their own way to be at peace with themselves. Though at times it can be attained, I feel--at least for me--it is always an uphill battle, and there are many times where setbacks occur, and you often find yourself right back to where you started. It is important to recognize that these things will always occur, but not to be overwhelmed; there is always room for improvement and changing one's self-perspective is something that always--though perhaps with some difficulty--can be done. It is done a lot easier though with self-introspection, and it is my impression that perhaps this is not something that is done enough for many people. With "today's" hectic society however, I wonder what with work, family, etc. if this is even an option for some people; it is very sad to think it may not be.

Lastly, in my opinion, achieving (a good level of) self-esteem is a very humbling process and to me is the direct opposite of narcissism. Someone with self-esteem, in my view, believes that even with all their flaws, they are an individual with worth and can effect change for the good in other people's lives.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
22,533 posts, read 46,067,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post

The video is right; it all started changing in the 70's; when schools started focusing on "everyone gets a prize!" , fuzzy math "there are no wrong answers!", and casually excusing poor language, science, and comprehension skills. No longer was it important to read and interpret Milton or Shakespeare, no longer was it paramount to solve for the unknown 'x'. What mattered is how students 'felt' about math and science and grammar, not that their conclusions were accurate or logical. Reporters stopped reporting on 'who, what,when, where, and why' and instead charged at people, demanding to know "how does it FEEL??" We became more worried about how students and children 'felt' than about what they were learning.
I don't go along with this. I was in school in the 70s and there was no such thing as "fuzzy" math. There was a right answer and anything else was considered wrong and marked accordingly. I was a newspaper reporter in the 80s and 90s and we used the same principles. All of the above is a lot of hyperbole that is often used as sound bites, wildly popular among the masses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basiliximab View Post

One thing about self-esteem, which I'm not sure was brought up, is that it is important to note that everyone has flaws. It is my opinion that one's self-esteem can be promoted in a large way by recognizing these flaws, and then work on improving on them; I find it very helpful, when my mind can safely wander (such as, not at work), to meditate on the past several days, recognizing times when I definitely have not been at my best, and work on finding ways to overcome these difficulties.

Each individual must find their own way to be at peace with themselves. Though at times it can be attained, I feel--at least for me--it is always an uphill battle, and there are many times where setbacks occur, and you often find yourself right back to where you started. It is important to recognize that these things will always occur, but not to be overwhelmed; there is always room for improvement and changing one's self-perspective is something that always--though perhaps with some difficulty--can be done. It is done a lot easier though with self-introspection, and it is my impression that perhaps this is not something that is done enough for many people. With "today's" hectic society however, I wonder what with work, family, etc. if this is even an option for some people; it is very sad to think it may not be.

Lastly, in my opinion, achieving (a good level of) self-esteem is a very humbling process and to me is the direct opposite of narcissism. Someone with self-esteem, in my view, believes that even with all their flaws, they are an individual with worth and can effect change for the good in other people's lives.
Can't agree more. That's why I said that the example of the young lady that was told she could be anything fell apart when she became older. Of course this is a third-hand telling. For all we know, the young lady was the victim of incest and that is why she had issues.

But that is EXACTLY what I am saying. You did a much better job of it, though. Self-esteem if the opposite of narcissism. The narcissist is always trying to prove themselves, get attention, come out on top because they have a lack of self-esteem. I was raised by two narcissists and both have no self-esteem whatsoever. They both are constantly scrambling to find it. It is always about them in their never-ending quest.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Southwest Desert
4,166 posts, read 5,174,193 times
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Interesting posts! Thanks!...I'm definitely aware of my flaws! Some things are harder for me to learn and master. And other things seem easier...I don't have the view that I excel in every area. I know my strengths and weaknesses...When I was in grammar school I sure admired the kids in my class who were natural born artists or singers or the kids who excelled in sports etc..I wasn't jealous or envious of them. I was just in "awe" of them and fascinated with their skills and talents at such a young age...I had my specialties too. I did well in English and spelling and it was easy for me to express myself through my writing. I think we all have natural born skills and talents in one area or another. And this is great! But we can run into trouble when we start to envy others and compare ourselves "unfavorably" to other people instead of "being happy" with "who we are!" Don't you think?
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:18 AM
 
7,497 posts, read 9,274,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CArizona View Post
I have a friend who always needs to be the "center of attention" or viewed as a "hero."...She has a tendency to make everything "about her."
I worked with a woman like that at my old job, man she was annoying. Every year we had a walking contest at work and the winning team won gifts. The second year her and I were on separate teams and the competition between the two of us in particular was pretty heated (and awesome up to a point). But I was the only one on my team doing the work, and getting nagged about beating her and when she started skipping her lunch meal to walk all hour, I finally gave up. That's it, she can win, I don't care lol. I wasn't going to skip one of my only meals to beat her.

It was sad because it was a really fun event before everybody (not just her) started taking it so seriously.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:20 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
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lots of codependency. lots of low self esteem.
but as a national disease no. but white guilt as a national disease, you betcha.
self hatred is a cancer.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
22,533 posts, read 46,067,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CArizona View Post
But we can run into trouble when we start to envy others and compare ourselves "unfavorably" to other people instead of "being happy" with "who we are!" Don't you think?
I've been thinking a lot about that lately. So many people are jealous and I am not. I just don't get like that and I truly can be happy for someone else. In fact, it is an awesome feeling.

Now, I can look at someone's job, house, car, clothes, etc., and aspire to have those things, too, but I don't get being upset because someone has them and I don't. So what? I think it's GREAT that someone else is happy.

What bothers me is people around me that are envious or always upset. Who likes hanging people like that? Don't get me wrong. You can't be happy all the time and expect everyone else to be, too. We should be there for each other even when they are having a bad day. But I can't stand people that always complain, are never happy, don't have the ability to see the funny side of things.

But being envious of someone else seems like such wasted energy. Instead, why don't people work toward getting the same things? Seems like a better use of time and energy.

Jealousy and the constant time spent worrying about what everyone else is doing is such a waste.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:47 PM
 
5,547 posts, read 8,290,915 times
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Boy, I think that's a tough question to answer OP, but if I had to say yes or no I'd say no. I say that because I think Americans are oblivious to a lot of what is in front of our face.

Too, as long as most are still working, I think it's business as usual for those people.

Americans have always been rather, hmm, we are the best sort of mentality and I don't think the reality that we are slipping into a lesser power role in the world is really dawning on them. So I'd say no, I don't think self esteem is decreasing for most.

Now, if you're not working and have been rejected over and over when applying for jobs, yes, I do think for those self-esteem is decreasing.
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,115,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
I don't go along with this. I was in school in the 70s and there was no such thing as "fuzzy" math. There was a right answer and anything else was considered wrong and marked accordingly. I was a newspaper reporter in the 80s and 90s and we used the same principles. All of the above is a lot of hyperbole that is often used as sound bites, wildly popular among the masses.
I said it started in the 70's.
Gee, I was a working mother during the 80s, a reporter during the 90s, and a political columnist the 1st 10 years of this century, and I watched it all happening to my peers and their families. I also was a member of several different organizations during those 30 years that fought for parents' rights, did community development, and gave parents tools to teach their children in the home from birth to PreK. It isn't hyperbole, it is fact. Don't deny or debase someone else's reality because it is different from your own.
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