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I don't think IQ tests help much in that sense. If a person is good at this or that, they will naturally try to do it as people don't like doing things they suffer and fail at doing.
I don't want an IQ gestapo telling people what profession to learn and which subjects to study. People should do what they feel like doing. Freedom is more important than money.
What you are suggesting doesn't in any way involve freedom in that many people want to do things that they just aren't capable of. IQ test scores can give school counselors a direction to dealing with kids that you just can't get anywhere else. As for using IQ test scores on job sites, I am not sure how many bosses even understand what IQ is or how to use it. Counselors are trained to use the scores and know that they should keep numbers to themselves while never giving the numbers to kids.
I have taken more than a few pre job IQ tests in the past(LEO or advancement)...they were all pretty much within a few "points" of each other.
They all showed I have an extremely high IQ...BUT....I am a walking ,talking nightmare of idiocy for the most part.
I make one stupid move after another...I do not look,feel nor act "smart".
I posted on here quite awhile back about taking an IQ test for a job and it showed I was in the "Mensa" range...I showed back up on my regular job bragging to all my buddies how they were blessed to be working with such a great mind and blah blah blah...I then proceeded to back a Bulldozer off into a slurry pit and bury it beyond belief and then fell off the tracks into the mud while trying to get off of it...all in front of everyone I had just bragged to...so no,I do not think they are really that accurate.
My Dad was in the ASA while in the military..if you look that up,only .04% of military recruits scored high enough to even be considered for that...I watched him cut a tree down and it fell on his new truck...so there again,more proof in the direction of the accuracy of IQ testing imho.
Hey, skinner, I was also in the ASA in the Army but then we had our own cooks, motor people, and such like so I don't think there was any requirement about learning ability. One guy I with in Basic Training had signed up for ASA and was sent to a pole lineman school for Signal Corps. He was very dumb IMO but would have been a good worker.
Is your dad still around? I was in DF, what was he?
if you are in the mensa range (for what it's worth, i've been told by psychologists i am as well), then you should understand the multifaceted nature of intelligence. the same person can be a math whiz but socially retarded, or a social butterfly but mathematically retarded. obviously you are very smart in some areas and perhaps less so in others. that's true of everyone. some people are smarter than others overall, but in the end we all vary in how intelligent we are in each given area.
I agree with you but I have to say again that IQ is nothing but learning ability and it would apply to any area of earning but desire of one in an area could very much influence his ability to learn in an area he wasn't interested in. IQ is nothing more than a measure of the ability of one to learn. The higher the number the easier it is for one to learn but interest in a subject is very important.
While the test I took in the Army wasn't aimed at IQ, for learning ability in language I failed it and took a very sound chewing out for doing so. It was to see if you qualified for the language school to learn a foreign language. I finished only 34 questions and you had to have 35 correct to pass the test. I just took too much time trying to get everything right and ran out of time. I was accused of malingering in that I stopped at 34, which I did but not because I wanted to. I was just too slow in doing the questions. After getting assigned to a more interesting part of the ASA I was certainly glad I didn't qualify for the Language School.
What you are suggesting doesn't in any way involve freedom in that many people want to do things that they just aren't capable of. IQ test scores can give school counselors a direction to dealing with kids that you just can't get anywhere else. As for using IQ test scores on job sites, I am not sure how many bosses even understand what IQ is or how to use it. Counselors are trained to use the scores and know that they should keep numbers to themselves while never giving the numbers to kids.
It does involve freedom, the freedom to choose one's own profession regardless of how difficult it gets because of certain IQ deficits. And if the person fails, they at least tried. Some deficits can also be compensated by additional effort etc.
After reviewing the topic regarding conservatives and their lower IQ's causing their prejudiced opinions, a thought came to me. Many people discredit intelligence testing based on all types of cultural (unless you are Asian) biases and the like. What are your thoughts on the accuracy of intelligence testing? After reading the bell curve and a rebuttal of the bell curve, I believe IQ testing is accurate and that intelligence is hereditary.
I think IQ is hereditary as well, but stimulation and surroundings I believe has just as much to do with intelligence.
So a child could be born to a pair of PHD's in Physics but if the child is left in his crib and ignored and then sent off to school to sink or swim I think he's never going to reach is potential ever, no matter what.
Didn't they used to say "success by 5" or something like that? The first few years are the formative years.
I don't think Asians are born any smarter than most of us, it's just that their parents make education an absolute priority.
The concept of "intelligence" is relative to the constructs and values society has deemed most essential. Furthermore, a highly cerebral person who has achieved significant success in his or her academic or professional career may suffer in other aspects in his or her life, whether that be morally, ethically, socially etc. Unless you are a renaissance man, intelligence is a rather ambiguous term.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Originally Posted by ajs0503
The concept of "intelligence" is relative to the constructs and values society has deemed most essential. Furthermore, a highly cerebral person who has achieved significant success in his or her academic or professional career may suffer in other aspects in his or her life, whether that be morally, ethically, socially etc. Unless you are a renaissance man, intelligence is a rather ambiguous term.
Dancing is as cerebral as quantum mechanics, but isn't usually considered a subset of intelligence (except in Gardner's theory of intelligence, iirc) and isn't included in IQ tests.
Some hunter/gathers might be especially effective at figuring out where and how the fish or the deer are going to be, and how best to catch or trap them, but that's also not tested for in IQ tests. However that might be more a measure of cognitive complexity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_complexity than intelligence.
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
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Originally Posted by roysoldboy
Hey, skinner, I was also in the ASA in the Army but then we had our own cooks, motor people, and such like so I don't think there was any requirement about learning ability. One guy I with in Basic Training had signed up for ASA and was sent to a pole lineman school for Signal Corps. He was very dumb IMO but would have been a good worker.
Is your dad still around? I was in DF, what was he?
Unfortunately,he passed in '98...Signal Corps and ASA were a whole different planet and the ASA worked under the direct control of the NSA,not the military.
the chance of someone "dumb" being in the ASA is zero..Many sites state .04% were eligible by aptitude and .07 of those eligible made it through the entire process with out washing out......were you Crypto?Were you in Herzo?Trained in the Arlington Hall and Washington D.C. area? Take any training in Mass?VA? How long did you train prior to being "turned loose"?
You are close in age to Dad,who knows,you may have served together.
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
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Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
if you are in the mensa range (for what it's worth, i've been told by psychologists i am as well), then you should understand the multifaceted nature of intelligence. the same person can be a math whiz but socially retarded, or a social butterfly but mathematically retarded. obviously you are very smart in some areas and perhaps less so in others. that's true of everyone. some people are smarter than others overall, but in the end we all vary in how intelligent we are in each given area.
Yes,I do understand that..BUT...the question is if we think IQ tests are accurate.
for a person to be "smart" shouldn't all of those facets count into the sum of an individual's intelligence?Not just what you can do on paper,but the whole package of who you are?
So no,I do not think intelligence testing can ever be fair because it would somehow have to take the big pic into the test and include common sense and everything else involved in everyday living and being.JMO
Yes,I do understand that..BUT...the question is if we think IQ tests are accurate.
for a person to be "smart" shouldn't all of those facets count into the sum of an individual's intelligence?Not just what you can do on paper,but the whole package of who you are?
So no,I do not think intelligence testing can ever be fair because it would somehow have to take the big pic into the test and include common sense and everything else involved in everyday living and being.JMO
i agree that i.q. tests are far from accurate. they are culturally biased and also biased in many other ways. i couldn't even take the visuo-spatial part of the test cause it's dependent upon eyesight. i do know i have the capacity for visualization of space through tactile means, because i create mental maps in my head all the time. there's just one example of the shortcomings of an i.q. test.
and like you said, i.q. tests can test for bookish intelligence but not practical intelligence. even presenting hypothetical scenarios requires linguistic intelligence to understand completely, so that in itself would skew the results of practical intelligence.
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" of each other.
...I showed back up on my regular job bragging to all my buddies how they were blessed to be working with such a great mind and blah blah blah...I then proceeded to back a Bulldozer off into a slurry pit and bury it beyond belief and then fell off the tracks into the mud while trying to get off of it...all in front of everyone I had just bragged to...so no,I do not think they are really that accurate.
