Sorry for the bluntness, but it's the only word I've ever hear for it - "faghags" - what's the deal? (girlfriend, attracted)
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Elizabeth Taylor was quite a mess this way, come to think of it ... from "peaches and cream" to quasi-degenerate.
Elizabeth Taylor was well known for her life long friendships with gay men, starting with Roddy MacDowell with whom she co-starred in "Lassie Come Home", carrying through to Michael Jackson who hosted her eighth (and last) marriage to Larry Fortensky. She had a long string of gay male friendships. As far as I know, she never had any close female friends.
Elizabeth Taylor was well known for her life long friendships with gay men, starting with Roddy MacDowell with whom she co-starred in "Lassie Come Home", carrying through to Michael Jackson who hosted her eighth (and last) marriage to Larry Fortensky. She had a long string of gay male friendships. As far as I know, she never had any close female friends.
When I meant quasi-degenerate about Liz, I was referring to her full-tilt embracing of everything that was decadent within Hollywood - her huge diamond on display, her serial marriages, the weird dysfunctional disparities in her marriages, etc. etc.
...Typically, such women range from being unattractive to being kind of hip/"Gothic"/somewhat intellectual to being middle-of-the road in terms of looks. They appear to have few women friends. However, they are constantly at the side of openly, or obvious, gay men....
Living in NYC from 1959 through the 2000, this was a term I heard, and a phenomenon I saw, fairly often. I should point out that the women I'm describing were post-college women with jobs.
A few of these women were not attractive by the standards of the time, being overweight was the main thing that comes to mind. However, many of the women in the late Sixties, Seventies and Eighties that fit the label were very, very attractive and socially confident women. One I knew in the Eighties had been a state beauty queen winner. Thus, I was very surprised at your characterization. So, in that respect, perhaps, it sounds as if things have changed, or perhaps what I saw was an NYC variant.
My take on these latter women was that they wanted the fun of going to gay clubs (often private) and gay resorts and also didn't want to be sexually hassled all the time. They clearly would have had no trouble finding het male companions, and one such young woman I knew had a steady boyfriend who accompanied her to gay places, and another at work had a het dating life that ran parallel with her constant gay socializing, but I gathered was separate.
One thing that has probably definitely changed is that in the late Sixties and Seventies, a lot of places frequented by African-Americans or gay men were considered cutting edge or "in" places. A dance venue such as The Sanctuary (which I went to from time to time) Was "gay" but not gay, at least in its early years, and it was the first all-out dance environment club in Manhattan. It was in a large converted church, controlled entry, and had the most innovative DJ in the city, the famous Francis Grasso, who was one of the first DJs to use two turntables. It was used in one of the scenes of the film Klute. At the time it was virtually unique in Manhattan. It also had a mixed crowd in another sense - whites, Latinos and blacks.
When I meant quasi-degenerate about Liz, I was referring to her full-tilt embracing of everything that was decadent within Hollywood - her huge diamond on display, her serial marriages, the weird dysfunctional disparities in her marriages, etc. etc.
When she croaked, I thought BFD.
I didn't take your comment to be a disparagement of her friendships with gay males--only an observation--as was my comment that she never had any close female friends. True, she loved her jewelry and amassed an extraordinary amount of it during her lifetime. After her death her jewelry sold at auction for well over $100 million. She lived life as flamboyantly as any of her predecessors in the entertainment field. Still, she devoted much time to AIDS awareness and AIDS charities during the 80's and 90's before she became an invalid.
I didn't take your comment to be a disparagement of her friendships with gay males--only an observation--as was my comment that she never had any close female friends. True, she loved her jewelry and amassed an extraordinary amount of it during her lifetime. After her death her jewelry sold at auction for well over $100 million. She lived life as flamboyantly as any of her predecessors in the entertainment field. Still, she devoted much time to AIDS awareness and AIDS charities during the 80's and 90's before she became an invalid.
All movie stars have their bleeding heart cause, including PETA. BTW, so did actor Michael Glaser, whose actual WIFE Elizabeth Glaser died from the disease, as have MANY other actors who have championed this cause. I guess her flamboyance gave her some extra credibility.
But the topic at hand isn't celebrities, though she was just one example ...
I am shocked! I simply can't believe this! You were in graduate school!?
As for "faghags", "fruit flies", whatever you want to label them--why do you care? If they don't want to be around heterosexual men, you're heterosexual (I'm assuming--I don't really know you), and they aren't attractive to you, why not just live and let live? Maybe they want the friendship of men without having to worry that the men are just angling to get in their pants. Maybe they'd be friends regardless of the men's sexual orientation. Who's to say? Like any other attempt to paint a large, diverse group with a broad brush, their motivations are likely as individual as the people you're trying to figure out.
I don't know if this will help answer your question or (based on your responses to others) you really want an answer. Your premise seems to be that ugly women like gay men because they can't get regular guys.
I have had one long term gay male friend and was still referred to by that term as in "what are you, some sort of f**h**?"
My friendship with him is all about shared interests, especially computers and gaming. He's a wiz and has a great imagination.
I have female friends and my best friend is female, but the women I know and like tend to be more into technology, than into being married and having kids. There is nothing more boring or irritating to me than hearing about or dealing with someone else's kid.
I like men...in general. I like the way they smell, I like the way they think, what they say, and how they sound. I like a sophisticated sense of humor (not the dumb and dumber farting kind). So having a male friend is very nice. We do not talk about hair, makeup, nails, etc...though we did have a strange conversation where we were both liking on the same guy and I stopped about 5 min in and he said "you just remembered I am a guy." and I started laughing.
There are more things than sex involved with a hetro relationship. There are expectations. If you go out with a guy, he feels obligated to pay. No one pays for me. I pay my own way. He feels like he needs to pick you up, to drive, to entertain you. It is a very special hetro male who can move from a male and female category to a person and person category. And males seem to feel peer pressure...what you took her out but you didn't make it. Especially in this day and age, women can really feel like a notch on a males belt.
There is also an exclusivity expectation. If a male courts you, he expects you to put him first. If you don't, then you are called a w**re or other nasty things. If he doesn't want to make it exclusive then he is often called a "player". By creating friendships that remove sex from the equation you get the freedom of experiencing a wide variety of interests, without the complications inherent in societiele conventions.
I value my friendship greatly. Would I exclude a friendship or relationship with a male because he was hetro. Definately not. But I would require that he be mature enough to handle all the things I have stated.
Basically, my life is about living and being happy, and not about being judged or pigeon-holed.
I do not know if this will help with your question, but maybe.
I don't know if this will help answer your question or (based on your responses to others) you really want an answer. Your premise seems to be that ugly women like gay men because they can't get regular guys.
I have had one long term gay male friend and was still referred to by that term as in "what are you, some sort of f**h**?"
My friendship with him is all about shared interests, especially computers and gaming. He's a wiz and has a great imagination.
Oftentimes, the premise is correct. Many seem to have a motherly, pillowy kind of presentation.
You write about one. You write how you shared common interests you couldn't share with others. That's cool.
I was talking about it when it is a RECURRENT pattern. But your contribution provided insight and honesty.
I have gay friends, straight friends, old friends and young friends. I hate labels. People are just people trying to live life with the love of friends and families. What difference does it make who their best friend is?
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