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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Oh yeah, there's definitely a lot that, I think some of that is just a reaction against those who think they are better than everyone else because they're rich or educated. I actually used to feel a little embarrassed that my dad drove a Mercedes, okay well not embarrassed, but a little self-conscious. Not that it's a big deal now, and we weren't super rich or anything but we were pretty well off. Also the fact we lived in a two storey house seemed to indicate we were wealthy to some folks, which I found odd since two storey houses aren't exactly rare. One storey houses do seem a lot commoner here than in the States though.
I guess it's also more acceptable to be anti-rich and anti-intellectual. Politicians talk about the average working class battler and try to get down to their level and sadly they fool a lot of people. Personally, I don't like either form, but I guess I tend to be more derisive of wealth, not because I'm jealous (I'm 'middle class' if you have to call it something), but I'm derisive of the whole materialistic system, and believe some exploitation is involved in gaining wealth.
The best one I heard is when someone I knew was describing somebody at a company we had to deal with. He was describing a division president or some such mucky-muck. (Actually, the only Houstonian I've met who was a real a-hole). At any rate, in describing this guy, the person said "He's college." There you have it: reverse snobbery, illiteracy, everything.
You have some good points here.
And I agree with above poster who said people who have to diss someone just bcs of their education (especially if that person isnt flagrantly bragging about it) are insecure about themselves.
Anyone going back for an advanced degree should be encouraged, if its what they really want.
I think the whole anti-intellectualism media trend we have in America now is pretty sad. Its like encouraging people to be dumbed down. I wonder sometimes if there's an agenda behind it.
Oh yeah, there's definitely a lot that, I think some of that is just a reaction against those who think they are better than everyone else because they're rich or educated.
However, Tri, many educated people, including myself, come from humble run-of-the-mill middle-class roots. That I parked my ass in the university library is because that's what I chose to do. They could have done the same.
I haven't really come across this, maybe because I work in education.
I came from a lower-middle class family and I love talking about my college experiences and my degree in Philosophy. I would be lying if I didn't get some sort of inflated ego about it; because I think Philosophy is awesome and even more awesome because its a relatively rare degree.
But anyway, from my time away from college, I don't act as pretentious as I once was. And since my position at work only required an AA people are surprised that I have my degree.
I don't talk with elevated speech at work and I'm jovial most of the time. (I probably wouldn't use the word jovial at work very often).
It's just about knowing your audience.
We had a principal who was an "Academic" and he turned off a lot of faculty because he didn't alter his speech. He would talk like he was straight out of an Ivy League school and play classical music in his office. Most people couldn't relate.
About actual certifications, I'm only down on them because I have more experience than the certification could give me; and that's probably how some view college. They have preconceived notions of college, they've made it this far with out it, and at this point don't need it. If they are getting passed up for promotions, then they might be a little resentful.
I have found reverse snobbery to be one of the biggest irritants out there ... and a source of friction with friends and coworkers. I won't elaborate with stories, because they'll be boring. Unless asked, I don't bring up what I've studied or whatnot.
Americans seem to have a real chip on their shoulder when it comes to credentials, and I've seen friction or bad-mouthing come from those who, for example, might have a bachelor's degree toward those who have more than that, and are qualified for similar jobs/work.
I saw this a lot from another manager I worked closely with, at the job I worked before this most recent one (which I resigned last week 'cause I'm moving to NYC in a couple days – woot!) His snobbery, or really, jealousy reared its head whenever we hired someone new (always easy to spot at a company with just 30-some employees at its largest), and that newbie had a master's degree. Not just that, he had a particular breed of venom reserved for those who got technical master's degrees from a very highly ranked and competitive engineering school in our city. I imagined the fact that he'd stopped at an associate's degree had something to do with it. However, I'd stopped at a bachelor's, so I wasn't much farther ahead of him, but somehow, I wasn't jealous of my more-credentialed colleagues, b/c as I saw it, stopping at a bachelor's was my choice. Clearly, he didn't see it that way, cause whenever a new hire who had more than a bachelor's came in, he would accuse them of "talking constantly about their degrees," and "being snobs." And, if they came from that top engineering school, "talking constantly about their alma mater," too. In my three years working there, I never once saw a new hire act in the way that he described.
In the end, I think it came down to simple insecurity and fear of falling behind. He'd earned his associate's degree in the early 1990s when designers didn't need to know web (he's close to 40), and I know it hurt him to watch people his age, and even older, surpassing him in credentials and skills. I knew this was the issue because he got kinda sh*tty with me after my boss sent me to get a Microsoft Website Administrator certification and I started taking classes in web development and getting really good at front-end programming. As with anyone who has this attitude, I felt bad for him. He was only hurting himself. With all the time he wasted engaging in smack-talk, he could have followed my lead and asked our boss to get some Microsoft training, or enrolled in a couple of college classes in UI design or web development. He's loaded, and his mom bought his housing for him, so his salary was his to spend on, literally, whatever he liked. The saddest part was, he got confused and bewildered, and lashed out at people when they started distancing themselves from him because of his negative behavior. Heck, by the end, it's likely he thought we were ALL snobs.
I saw this a lot from another manager I worked closely with, at the job I worked before this most recent one (which I resigned last week 'cause I'm moving to NYC in a couple days – woot!) His snobbery, or really, jealousy reared its head whenever we hired someone new (always easy to spot at a company with just 30-some employees at its largest), and that newbie had a master's degree. Not just that, he had a particular breed of venom reserved for those who got technical master's degrees from a very highly ranked and competitive engineering school in our city. I imagined the fact that he'd stopped at an associate's degree had something to do with it. However, I'd stopped at a bachelor's, so I wasn't much farther ahead of him, but somehow, I wasn't jealous of my more-credentialed colleagues, b/c as I saw it, stopping at a bachelor's was my choice. Clearly, he didn't see it that way, cause whenever a new hire who had more than a bachelor's came in, he would accuse them of "talking constantly about their degrees," and "being snobs." And, if they came from that top engineering school, "talking constantly about their alma mater," too. In my three years working there, I never once saw a new hire act in the way that he described.
This story is very typical. It is especially found in "gold watch" companies (now rare) where people worked their way up and then, light bulb, these companies start hiring college grads with technical or business training. It's a real culture clash.
Another thing is that, if a person has a high level of educational attainment, it is virtually impossible for them to be inarticulate dolts. Polish, making convincing arguments, and taking the lead are somewhat natural. People who are incapable, improperly trained, or insecure really wig out with this situation.
This story is very typical. It is especially found in "gold watch" companies (now rare) where people worked their way up and then, light bulb, these companies start hiring college grads with technical or business training. It's a real culture clash.
Another thing is that, if a person has a high level of educational attainment, it is virtually impossible for them to be inarticulate dolts. Polish, making convincing arguments, and taking the lead are somewhat natural. People who are incapable, improperly trained, or insecure really wig out with this situation.
So true.
I have an M.S. but at one point a co-Sr manager had his MBA. I had no issues with him. But the owner of the company sure did. He was extremely competitive with the educated man who had an MBA (even though he straightened out the attrition rate and improved productivity immensely).
I work in the academic arena now, and can see less of this 'class envy'. People are more concerned with teaching and/or getting their PhD, of course there is still competition for tenure, etc. But I find it a much healthier environment than cut-throat business.
I have an M.S. but at one point a co-Sr manager had his MBA. I had no issues with him. But the owner of the company sure did. He was extremely competitive with the educated man who had an MBA (even though he straightened out the attrition rate and improved productivity immensely).
I saw this problem for the first time in Atlanta, a city I loved, and still do. A woman, from NY and with an Emory MBA, had to work for a southern "local" long-term employee with questionable education. The fighting between them was distressing, even for those on the sidelines. She lost the "battle," as could be expected. It was a good company, but this situation was all too common because of their cultural shift to hire educated people, none of whom were pretentious but yet could sift through problems and solutions more readily.
Yes, you are spot on. The good of the company, is often compromised bcs of petty "in-fighting". And it gets worse as you move up the ladder.
As Sr. Ops Mgr I had to teach a 55 yr old woman how to do an Excel spreadsheet on attrition. This woman had worked at the company for a decade. She knew the owner. I wonder what she did all day, other than monitor the CSR's. (busy work).
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,047,835 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot
This story is very typical. It is especially found in "gold watch" companies (now rare) where people worked their way up and then, light bulb, these companies start hiring college grads with technical or business training. It's a real culture clash.
Another thing is that, if a person has a high level of educational attainment, it is virtually impossible for them to be inarticulate dolts. Polish, making convincing arguments, and taking the lead are somewhat natural. People who are incapable, improperly trained, or insecure really wig out with this situation.
The know the old joke about college making you dumber...
But yeah, to me education isn't about how much head knowledge you know, it's a state of mind, an openness of mind rather, a curiosity about things, not just the specific things you need to know to perform your job. I like the old school academic tradition of creating well-rounded polymath. William Siddis, popularly considered one of the smartest people ever, was one such example. I'm not saying one should cram as much knowledge into one's noggin for the mere sake of it, but education as a useful tool and to enrich one's life is really the purpose of it.
I've met people who were over-educated but who lacked common sense. I've also met people who didn't graduate high school who probably had more general knowledge than anyone I knew, or had more real life experience/smarts than those professors in their ivory towers. You can have both or neither, of course, I'm sure saying it's often not the case.
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