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Have any of you personally gotten past the 'phenomenon of craving' problem and moderated your drinking? Or do you know somebody who you've observed do so successfully?
I don't mean drinking successfully a few times in a row and then losing it and binging or otherwise drinking heavily, but rather having gone from drinking alcoholically and being driven by the 'phenomenon of craving', to being able to 'take it or leave it', not drink every single day, and not binging when you do drink.
I understand that AA and other outlets preach total abstinence and that an alcoholic can never drink safely again, but let's be open minded. If you're an alcoholic and you've decided you can never safely drink again, so be it. Do what works for you. But for the sake of this thread, let's be open minded.
There are two Canadian researchers named Mark and Linda Sobell (a husband and wife team, IIRC) that had a controversial treatment plan in the 70's that tried to teach alcoholics to be able to drink moderately. I don't remember whether there were any studies that confirmed their results outright; I think that the confirmation studies showed mixed results, but I could be mistaken.
Personally, I've never seen it successfully done, and I'm not convinced that it can be for the long term, but YMMV.
Not necessarily "alcoholics"... But I have noticed with some "people who drink alcohol" that they will drink anything placed in front of them when they are young and in their 20's (shots of this and that along with their beer or mixed drinks).
Then in their 30's, they start saying NO to people offering to buy them shots.
And in their 40's, they pretty much cut out the shots entirely and also reduce the number of drinks they drink.
I don't know if this is because they are older and their bodies can't handle it anymore - or are older / smarter and know enough not to booze it up too much or they will pay the price the next day?
It probably depends on the exact mechanism of addiction and how an individual responds to it physically and psychologically.
If you're genetically predisposed to addictive behaviors and are accustomed to self-medicating with alcohol, then anything short of total abstinence is likely to be a Bad Idea. That's because one's brain wiring is such that feeding it a little alcohol feeds a desire for more -- whereas other people would begin to feel a loss of clarity and control and rationally stop, you would enjoy the feeling and want more of it.
Basically if you have a history of doing anything contrary to your rational self-interest, then you probably aren't capable of self-regulating that behavior and should just avoid it. Particularly when it comes to recreational drink and drugs, what is the big deal anyway, people have perfectly rewarding alcohol-free lives. If your drug of choice is romance and sex, it's a little harder to enjoy life without those things and you might go to the extra effort to get therapy for it, etc. But drinking? Just eliminate it. Lots of other things to do.
The main problem is that you might substitute something else for alcohol, e.g., food to excess. If addiction appears no matter where you go, then you really need to find an effective way to deal with it in between your ears.
Well that is what I did many years ago. Actually I never drank at home, just when going out to bars. And as I got older, I came to the conclusion I was not going to meet anyone at a bar worth knowing. So stopped going to bars, and then also stopped drinking.
I'm different from others who have stopped drinking...
Other people know the exact date they stopped drinking. The exact number of days since they had their last drink. They are "recovering".
I don't remember if it was 12, 13, or 14 years ago when I stopped. Definitely don't know the number of days. Also I am not "recovering" (to my knowledge?) I just saw no more point in drinking, so stopped. Other people do not understand that???
Now sometimes I go to bars to play pool or with friends, but just have soda pop. However I can't stand to be there after around 10:00 PM when everyone starts to get loud and drunk.
And I have beer and booze at home for other people who come over. Some people don't understand that either. I say just because I don't drink, that does not mean other people can't! But that seems to be a common thing with some people who have stopped drinking. They can't have it in the house nor be around it.
Alcoholics become alcoholics because they have lost that mechanism of control. After 2-3 drinks when most say, "thats enough" and stop drinking the true alcoholic doesn't. They don't have that trigger to shut off the consumption so their "trigger" to shut off has to be pulled before the first drink.
I have an extended family of recovering alcoholics and have discussed it at length with them. To an alcoholic the brand/style of alcohol or location doesn't matter.....they drink anything/anywhere/anytime. Their brain has craved the alcohol regardless of the time/place/type. This was odd to hear for me, I honestly don't care for hard liquor/wine/domestic beers. If I attend an event that doesn't have a beer I like, I won't drink at all. I won't suffer through a Bud Light because it is the only beer they have just to drink......I'll pass completely. My uncles would obviously start with something they prefer but once the ball got rolling, it simply didn't matter. Then drugs would fall into the mix, washed down with more alcohol until blackout time. Wouldn't matter if it started as a Christmas party, after work beer at the bar or even a BBQ at home but it would end in the same blackout unless the booze (or money to buy more) ran out too quickly.
Their standard answer when it comes to drinking: "I have drank enough in my lifetime for my next lifetime too"! They know one beer, one glass of wine won't end with them panhandling under the bridge but they know once that ball is rolling it is too tough for them to stop. They also have gotten a sense of pride from their accomplishment. In social settings I have seen them drink non-alcoholic beers and really once it is in the glass (no bottle) no one knows they are not drinking.
One uncle hit 30 years, two more are at the 10-15 year marks. They do regret somewhat wasting their lives and missing out on living more but they are still young enough to enjoy what they have left. Lots of legal bills, rehab costs on top of the physical damage they did to their bodies in addition to the actual drug/alcohol purchases over the years. My father was never big on alcohol/drugs after seeing what it did to his immediate family.
I know one alcoholic who was sober for six years. He had one drink, the day of his father's funeral, and in less than a month was back to being drunk 24 hours of the day and drinking one to two liters of alcohol each and every day.
There are two Canadian researchers named Mark and Linda Sobell (a husband and wife team, IIRC) that had a controversial treatment plan in the 70's that tried to teach alcoholics to be able to drink moderately. I don't remember whether there were any studies that confirmed their results outright; I think that the confirmation studies showed mixed results, but I could be mistaken.
Personally, I've never seen it successfully done, and I'm not convinced that it can be for the long term, but YMMV.
I remember there was a 20/20 episode quite a few years ago about this woman who was teaching alcoholics how to drink normally and she was gloating about her success. She was an alcoholic herself. She then got plowed one day, drove down the wrong side of the highway and killed a young girl and her father.
I think there are different types of alcoholics if you will...some of them might be able to stop, but there are those types that will never be able to drink normally.
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