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Old 01-10-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Upper Midwest
1,873 posts, read 4,400,849 times
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I regret my first post about it. I took a lot of words to say I just don't like the word forgiveness. LOL
It just sounds too generous to the other party. I think the lady in the second video I posted a ways up (post #43) said it best. It's just a stigma around the word that many of us grew up with. We were told to forgive, but not actually taught how. And in the end, it just translated in our heads to "someone's getting away with bad behavior."

I like the idea of going into the "space beyond forgiveness" as the man in the first video said. It'd be of great benefit to try and understand and love before trying to let it go. Compassion grows from understanding.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:32 PM
 
4,178 posts, read 4,422,041 times
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An old adage that gets to the issue of forgiveness.
'God' Forgives (that's the business he/she is in)
Man Sometimes Forgives
Nature Never Forgives

What Belmont22 said in post #9
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:44 PM
 
4,178 posts, read 4,422,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
Worse yet, I've never seen a forgiven people change their behavior for the better.
Minor greivances / offenses one can Forgive and Forget - major ones not so readily.
This is why forgiveness in the human earthly realm is really a two step function when possible.
Forgiveness and Restitution (when possible on the part of the person committing an action needing forgiveness).
It is analogous to why we have 'degrees' of crimes in the legal system. Some infractions are more 'forgiveable' with less penalty than others. JMHO
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,256 posts, read 2,126,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciceropolo View Post
Minor greivances / offenses one can Forgive and Forget - major ones not so readily.
This is why forgiveness in the human earthly realm is really a two step function when possible.
Forgiveness and Restitution (when possible on the part of the person committing an action needing forgiveness).
It is analogous to why we have 'degrees' of crimes in the legal system. Some infractions are more 'forgiveable' with less penalty than others. JMHO
All crimes, transgressions, hurts and offenses are forgivable...

Exhibit A:

After the Amish school shooting where ten children where shoot and 5 killed, the families of the victims offered forgiveness. On the SAME day...

No hatred, no anger. Forgiveness...

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-2059816.html

Not forgiving says more about us than the offense or the offender...
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,262 posts, read 24,411,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymouseX View Post
All crimes, transgressions, hurts and offenses are forgivable...

Exhibit A:

After the Amish school shooting where ten children where shoot and 5 killed, the families of the victims offered forgiveness. On the SAME day...

No hatred, no anger. Forgiveness...

Amish Forgive, Pray And Mourn - CBS News

Not forgiving says more about us than the offense or the offender...
You can forgive but you do not have to associate with the person anymore.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,256 posts, read 2,126,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
You can forgive but you do not have to associate with the person anymore.
Of course, but then have you really forgiven them or just let it and them go???


I think we've incorrectly defined forgiving.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:22 PM
 
4,178 posts, read 4,422,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymouseX View Post
All crimes, transgressions, hurts and offenses are forgivable...

Exhibit A:

After the Amish school shooting where ten children where shoot and 5 killed, the families of the victims offered forgiveness. On the SAME day...

No hatred, no anger. Forgiveness...

Amish Forgive, Pray And Mourn - CBS News

Not forgiving says more about us than the offense or the offender...

Yes, that's a great example under the most egregious circumstances. Indeed that Amish community is closer to 'God' than most human societies.

Although, there still are consequences for the behavior based upon standards adopted by varying cultures.

I interpreted in the view of the greater social fabric. This is why even though an individual offended can often 'forgive' the murderer or whatever the criminal transgression, society as a whole deems certain offenses to be weightier i.e. the inherent risk to the commonwealth. Perhaps someone forgives a pervert for molesting their child, yet the commonwealth deems criminal offense be reportable to those who the criminal is released to live among.

I feel compelled to ask - and don't know your life situation.
Do you want to know if a criminal , say for discussion, a convicted child molester, is moving next door, If you have children or grand kids visit?
Do you forgive him/her? Does your wisdom / judgment / concern for loved ones override your forgiveness? Will you welcome said criminal into your personal sphere?

I know it's an extreme example, but wonder how you'd feel / react in the whole realm of forgiveness.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,256 posts, read 2,126,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciceropolo View Post
Yes, that's a great example under the most egregious circumstances. Indeed that Amish community is closer to 'God' than most human societies.

Although, there still are consequences for the behavior based upon standards adopted by varying cultures.

I interpreted in the view of the greater social fabric. This is why even though an individual offended can often 'forgive' the murderer or whatever the criminal transgression, society as a whole deems certain offenses to be weightier i.e. the inherent risk to the commonwealth. Perhaps someone forgives a pervert for molesting their child, yet the commonwealth deems criminal offense be reportable to those who the criminal is released to live among.

I feel compelled to ask - and don't know your life situation.
Do you want to know if a criminal , say for discussion, a convicted child molester, is moving next door, If you have children of grand kids visit?
Do you forgive him/her? Does your wisdom / judgment / concern for loved ones override your forgiveness? Will you welcome said criminal into your personal sphere?

I know it's an extreme example, but wonder how you'd feel / react in the whole realm of forgiveness.
I can't answer that. I'd probably watch my child like a hawk.

I'm just a human. Forgiveness is the ideal. I really don't think we reach it all that often.

I think "forgiving" and walking away isn't what the religious texts had in mind. Though the child molester would be considered possessed in the time those same religious texts were written so...

Shrug...

I do know forgiving/letting it go is better for you though physically and psychologically. Even if you do walk away.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:39 PM
 
14,727 posts, read 33,307,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymouseX View Post
All crimes, transgressions, hurts and offenses are forgivable...

Exhibit A:

After the Amish school shooting where ten children where shoot and 5 killed, the families of the victims offered forgiveness. On the SAME day...

No hatred, no anger. Forgiveness...

Amish Forgive, Pray And Mourn - CBS News

Not forgiving says more about us than the offense or the offender...
You can't be sure there's NO anger. Anger is a very human emotion. The Amish are not robots. They are people. You don't know if the parents of those kids in PA are angry or not, or if their anger is being channeled in another manner.

My thought is that if there is still anger, forgiveness has not occurred.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,256 posts, read 2,126,318 times
Reputation: 1078
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
You can't be sure there's NO anger. Anger is a very human emotion. The Amish are not robots. They are people. You don't know if the parents of those kids in PA are angry or not, or if their anger is being channeled in another manner.

My thought is that if there is still anger, forgiveness has not occurred.
Perhaps, perhaps not...

Forgiveness precedes removal of anger IMHO.
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