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Old 01-30-2013, 11:38 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,322 posts, read 12,953,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perception View Post
I also notice you could not give me an example of a collective act of racism against, even an individual one. Racism = White supremacy, something all Africans should realize and defend themselves against.
In that case, I suppose the Tutsi-Hutu, Turk-Armenian, and Iraqi-Kurd conflicts (among many others) are just examples of boys being boys!

 
Old 01-30-2013, 01:47 PM
 
267 posts, read 202,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Agreed that black culture and perhaps even psychological outlook may be unique, although that likely depends on the region, and my experience as a white, living for awhile in the caribbean, is that Caribbean black folks seem much more at ease, with none of the issues and attitudes that African Americans often have.... simply because they've always been used to being in the majority there.

So the main problem I always have with these kinda ''you just wouldn't understand'' positions with any outsider group, is they only seem to make the problem of ''alienation'' worse. Because what sort of ''solutions'' do you hope to achieve by only further convincing folks how ''unique'' and ''special'' they are (aka, different from everyone else)?
Because it will be seen as charity, and charity does nothing but further the dependence of the oppressed on the the oppressor. So this is something that we should only do for ourselves, this is the only way we can pick ourselves up from the self-hate and self-delusion that is prevalent within the African people across the world.

Sympathizing whites who identify and also would like to end the African Holocaust should talk to their people, the very beneficiaries of white supremacy and white privilege seen so clearly through the eyes of the African people.



Quote:
Originally Posted by L'Artiste View Post
Well I'm a non knowing defining empowered African . Oh well
Enlighten yourself, my brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymouseX View Post
Please...

Julius Malema is a crazy racist. So is Zuma and Mokaba.

His did that song go? Oh yeah... "Kill the Boer." How many white farmers were murdered in SA in the last decade???

How many whites were murdered or scared out of Zimbabwe? Lolol...

Not to mention the tribal holocausts, the attack on gay people in Uganda, plus multiple other things.

I just recently was reading about people raping virgin girls because its supposed to get rid if HIV according to the witch doctor...

How long is the "it's the white man's fault" going to be used???
It is going to be used as long as it can be cited as the truth. I'm not looking to for someone to blame I'm only identifying the root problem. And in order to excute a weed, you must uproot it. Black children are sown with seed of self-hate early on because this society is ruled and set up within white supremacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kat949 View Post
Psychology in itself is highly grounded and based on socialpolitical influences. A part of the reason why it's not considered hard science is because it is socially biased.

What one considers to be a mental illness ex- not making eye contact in some cultures is considered to be a developmental delay in western psychology.

There's a branch in psychology that focuses on oppression and tosses DSM aside, and is firmly based on examining social inequalities for effective systemic change.

Individuals can change, but the environment is still highly influential (allowing people to move up and down the social ladders).

People often don't think how privilege/oppression go hand-in-hand so they create these social stigmas as to not deal with the real problems of society.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
Ukrkoz stated reasons for his disagreement with your view. To dismiss the dissenting opinions of others as "people offended for no reason" is extremely intolerant and disrespectful. Martin Luther King and those he marched with encountered racists who similarly thought he and his supporters were acting offended for no good reason. I am certainly not anti-black. I voted for Obama twice.

My point is you are not going to increase the number of your supporters by simply by arrogantly stating anyone with a different view is being offended for no reason as if you are the only one with any intelligence or knowledge on this subject. Good luck with your project, but consider retracting the intolerant stuff. No one is perfect. I am sure you have good intentions.
You bring up MLK because he advocated "white, liberal doctrines" and that is how the FBI described them. He was all for integration but as soon as he began to speak to black people about economics, BOOM! Shot dead, by the FBI. They were scared if he let down his nonviolent rhetoric that he would become the black "Messiah" they (the federal government) truly feared.

And I can care less for Obama, he was raised by a white mother and almost never knew his father, i guarantee, no matter how ridiculous it sounds, his name is NOT Barack Hussein Obama. He shouldn't even be a role model for blacks seeing as he does nothing for "his people" but he's so adamant about Immigration reform, and Gay and lesbian Rights, when the city he once represented is in the midst of self-perpetuated genocide, not just of the participants but plenty of em are innocent bystanders. I apologize for getting off topic.

Basically all I'm saying is it is time for black people to do for self. i'm not doing this to gain supporters but to shake my people from their indoctrination and empower them, sow the seeds so we can begin to come up with practical means to pick ourselves up from this Holocaust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
In that case, I suppose the Tutsi-Hutu, Turk-Armenian, and Iraqi-Kurd conflicts (among many others) are just examples of boys being boys!
nope, what you are speaking of is native populations who, after their colonizer left, took on the characteristics of their colonizer. I'm mainly speaking about Tutsi and Hutu conflict one that did not exist before the colonials came.

And @ChicagoMeO could you, since I'm a racist (which I've already stated I am not), show me any incident of the quote below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perception View Post
Give me an example of racism against whites and you'll see why your argument is flawed
 
Old 01-30-2013, 02:11 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,322 posts, read 12,953,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perception View Post
nope, what you are speaking of is native populations who, after their colonizer left, took on the characteristics of their colonizer. I'm mainly speaking about Tutsi and Hutu conflict one that did not exist before the colonials came.
Yeah, it was one heck of an egalitarian, race-neutral conflict. Some might even call it a party.

Even so, that does not at all describe the Armenian, Kurdish, Bosnian, etc. genocides.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 03:46 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,854 posts, read 10,430,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perception View Post
Because it will be seen as charity, and charity does nothing but further the dependence of the oppressed on the the oppressor. So this is something that we should only do for ourselves, this is the only way we can pick ourselves up from the self-hate and self-delusion that is prevalent within the African people across the world.

Sympathizing whites who identify and also would like to end the African Holocaust should talk to their people, the very beneficiaries of white supremacy and white privilege seen so clearly through the eyes of the African people.
Even in the unlikely event that were so, universally or otherwise, black folks would not be the first and only people to ever deal with issues of low self-esteem. Or for example, do you think gays, with a suicide rate 3 times that of heterosexuals, have a picnic out there?!

Because otherwise what you're describing is basically racially-sanctioned entitlement, grandiosity, specialness and lack of empathy... in other words, your average Narcissist! And BTW, the ''opposite'' and ''cure'' for clinical Narcissism isn't to go off and hear even more about how ''special'' your are... instead it's all about finding ways to build a more genuine and stronger sense of self thru interaction with others and discovering our shared humanity!
 
Old 01-30-2013, 03:54 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,322 posts, read 12,953,726 times
Reputation: 6171
In fairness, I think there's something to be said for taking into account, say, the African American cultural legacy when treating black American patients, but a discipline based on pan-Africanism would be of little help to a continental diaspora of widely varying origins and experiences. Yes, oppression has sadly been the name of the game for most all of them, but treating all subsaharan peoples as one in the same is still problematic in and of itself.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 04:10 PM
 
267 posts, read 202,293 times
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I never said it was an Utopian society merely saying the conflict wasn't there before they were colonized.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 04:14 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,322 posts, read 12,953,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perception View Post
I never said it was an Utopian society merely saying the conflict wasn't there before they were colonized.
That specific conflict, perhaps, but there wasn't exactly a of shortage inter-tribal strife in subsaharan Africa before the first white man stepped on its soil. Using fear and misunderstanding of others as an impetus to both dominate and create a caste system is hardly unique to Europeans. See, e.g., India. That's not to trivialize the very real marginalization faced by black Africans, but rather, to call out your objectively wrong assertion that it's solely inflicted by (much less, originated from) "white people," though as I'm sure you've been taught, "whiteness" is a rather amorphous concept anyway.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 04:19 PM
 
267 posts, read 202,293 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Even in the unlikely event that were so, universally or otherwise, black folks would not be the first and only people to ever deal with issues of low self-esteem. Or for example, do you think gays, with a suicide rate 3 times that of heterosexuals, have a picnic out there?!

Because otherwise what you're describing is basically racially-sanctioned entitlement, grandiosity, specialness and lack of empathy... in other words, your average Narcissist! And BTW, the ''opposite'' and ''cure'' for clinical Narcissism isn't to go off and hear even more about how ''special'' your are... instead it's all about finding ways to build a more genuine and stronger sense of self thru interaction with others and discovering our shared humanity!
How can you compare sexual orientation to an actual race? . You like to twist concepts that I propose to black people as racist, when in fact it is the exact opposite, you can't have world peace with a group of people, and entire race of people, stricken with self-hate, you can't get help from the people who perpetuate this system either. This isn't about being special as you put it, it is about uprooting the seeds of self-hate through the vehicle of self.

What you're preaching is the new "We are one" rhetoric I keep hearing but it's not true in theory, practice or reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
In fairness, I think there's something to be said for taking into account, say, the African American cultural legacy when treating black American patients, but a discipline based on pan-Africanism would be of little help to a continental diaspora of widely varying origins and experiences. Yes, oppression has sadly been the name of the game for most all of them, but treating all subsaharan peoples as one in the same is still problematic in and of itself.
I am a global Pan-Africanist and Garveyite, so this is the approach I will take. Before I go any further with this discussion with you, I would like to know if you are black or white and yes it is imperative to the discussion.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 04:22 PM
 
267 posts, read 202,293 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
That specific conflict, perhaps, but there wasn't exactly a of shortage inter-tribal strife in subsaharan Africa before the first white man stepped on its soil. Using fear and misunderstanding of others as an impetus to both dominate and create a caste system is hardly unique to Europeans. See, e.g., India. That's not to trivialize the very real marginalization faced by black Africans, but rather, to call out your objectively wrong assertion that it's solely inflicted by (much less, originated from) "white people," though as I'm sure you've been taught, "whiteness" is a rather amorphous concept anyway.
I'll dedicate an entire thread to disprove what you have said, that is my promise to you.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 04:26 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,322 posts, read 12,953,726 times
Reputation: 6171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perception View Post
I am a global Pan-Africanist and Garveyite, so this is the approach I will take. Before I go any further with this discussion with you, I would like to know if you are black or white and yes it is imperative to the discussion.
Yes, I am white, and before you imply (much less flat-out state) as such, I do not pretend to be an authority on African culture. But I know enough to state that treating everyone from Afro-Caribbeans to Senegalese as one in the same is not going to get you anywhere. This is not to attack Pan-Africanism specifically. I view most any "Pan-X" concept as inherently ill-fated, and that's a very common conclusion among black and white academics alike. I'll add that I'm of Jewish descent, so I'm descended from a pretty long line of universally marginalized people (we've certainly done relatively well in the past couple generations, but we're still awfully hated). And if you bring up any canards such as "The Jews were disproportionately involved in the slave trade" or, better yet, modern Jews are "imposters" and blacks are the true modern descendents of the 12 tribes of Israel, I'm just going to laugh at you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perception View Post
I'll dedicate an entire thread to disprove what you have said, that is my promise to you.
I'll devote this half of my post to state you sound like an angry 19-year-old who is (very poorly) regurgitating whatever his African Studies professors are feeding him. That's not to speak ill of them (or the concept of African studies in general). Just you.

Last edited by ElijahAstin; 01-30-2013 at 04:36 PM..
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