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Old 06-08-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
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True sociopaths feel very little to no shame because they are products of severe neglect and abuse. When your view is that the world doesn't give a sh*t about you why would you feel any shame harming society?
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Originally Posted by Colorado xxxxx View Post
True sociopaths feel very little to no shame because they are products of severe neglect and abuse. When your view is that the world doesn't give a sh*t about you why would you feel any shame harming society?
Why does the shame have to be about harming society? I was thinking more of personal shame, being ashamed you didn't stay in college until you graduated, or ashamed you look at porn, or ashamed you got drunk and acted stupid, ashamed your parents got divorced, or that you're a bastard, ashamed you failed algrebra, etc.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:22 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
Why does the shame have to be about harming society? I was thinking more of personal shame, being ashamed you didn't stay in college until you graduated, or ashamed you look at porn, or ashamed you got drunk and acted stupid, ashamed your parents got divorced, or that you're a bastard, ashamed you failed algrebra, etc.
They could feel shame for being the victims of abuse, if it was sexual abuse. That would be some very profound core shame.
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Originally Posted by Colorado xxxxx View Post
True sociopaths feel very little to no shame because they are products of severe neglect and abuse. When your view is that the world doesn't give a sh*t about you why would you feel any shame harming society?
So sociopaths feel like the world doesn't give a sh*t about them?
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
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Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
So sociopaths feel like the world doesn't give a sh*t about them?
Yes that's been my exp. working with a few and reading about more. What would you feel if your parents abused you horribly, you were taken by the state, and dumped in a group home, had little chance to succeed because of life circumstances..................would you honestly feel that society gives a crap
So over time you develop an attitude of WTF I am going to take what I want since society won't provide for me.

The group of juvenile offenders I worked with didn't care about anyone but themselves, maybe their family a bit. I had the respect of about half of them and friendly with two, and one of them tried to rip my wallet by breaking into staff drawers. I caught him he "sincerely" apologized and then laughed and made cracks about me while walking away. His real attitude was one of it just biz stealing from me even though he appeared friendly didn't matter. He just really saw me as a mark.

Corp. sociopaths are different I have more exp. with the above.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:07 AM
 
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Those two terms get me confused too. IMO and from another source I read long ago, a sociopath is someone that lacks empathy and regards the rights of others but doesn't murders while a psychopath does.

The only similarity is both lack empathy and don't care about the rights of others. They think they are above everyone else. Basically they are in their own world playing chess with you.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:58 AM
 
Location: So Ca
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Originally Posted by Colorado xxxxx View Post
True sociopaths feel very little to no shame because they are products of severe neglect and abuse.
One does not have to be abused or neglected to develop Antisocial Personality Disorder. (Look at Eric Harris of Columbine, the product of an intact, supposedly loving family.) You're right that they feel no shame.

A core of shame is evident in those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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I would say sociopaths are rewired socially and psychopaths are rewired psychologically.

So sociopaths can have major issues regarding what is thought of as social norms. Otherwise they are logically sound.

However psychopaths are rewired psychologically which could mean things like they might seek out pain when they shouldn't.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
Is this true? Do sociopaths have a "core of shame"? How does that work? What is the source of the shame? It sounds like you're saying they essentially subconsciously/semi-consciously choose to repress shame, but I don't get where all that shame comes from?
It's true. At some point in childhood - recurringly - the sociopath was humiliated and basically stripped of all personal power and dignity. They were made to feel worthless. There is tremendous shame associated with this type of experience, and rage is a cover for that shame. This is why sociopaths are obsessed with power and control. They want to own people, to humiliate them so that they can be the one in control, the one dominating. Many sociopaths seek out people who are vulnerable simply for the purpose of manipulating and destroying them. It gives them a sense of power to be able to break someone.

See, with sociopaths, there is zero interpersonal trust. There is no empathy, no relating, no give-and-take. It is who is up, and who is down. I crush you or you crush me.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:48 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Originally Posted by stava View Post
It's true. At some point in childhood - recurringly - the sociopath was humiliated and basically stripped of all personal power and dignity. They were made to feel worthless. There is tremendous shame associated with this type of experience, and rage is a cover for that shame. This is why sociopaths are obsessed with power and control. They want to own people, to humiliate them so that they can be the one in control, the one dominating. Many sociopaths seek out people who are vulnerable simply for the purpose of manipulating and destroying them. It gives them a sense of power to be able to break someone.

See, with sociopaths, there is zero interpersonal trust. There is no empathy, no relating, no give-and-take. It is who is up, and who is down. I crush you or you crush me.
Is this well understood and accepted as what develops a sociopath? I thought it was at least partially something they're born with.

What you've laid out here is very interesting and definitely sounds plausible. From what you've said, the people you decribe are quite directly taught or conditioned to be the way they are. It sounds like how people intentionally train dogs to be vicious. What are some scenarios of a child being "stipped of all personal power and dignity"?

I don't know if this relates, but I think I've read somewhere that ghetto types are partly the way they are due to feeling powerless, that the "hard" image they want to portray by everything they do (aggressive music, aggressive dog breeds, aggressive poses for photos, etc.) is driven by that feeling. Is that at all related to what you've described above?
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